György Ligeti (1923-2006)

[MDL]

Really convincing
you sound so genuine and believable.

Pot, kettle, black.

[toledobass]

Pot, kettle, black.

[paulb]

look I realize Ligeti's family was brutally mudered by the nazis, and Ligeti  suffer all his life from the horrors of german occupation, he himself never recovered. Who could?
But I wouldn't go over board about his music.
call me cruel, but i have to judge art as it presents itself, aside from the tormented artist.
A great man indeed to pull off the number of works that he did. Nazi germany destroyed many a  great artists, and prevented others, Schonberg, Berg, Webern from going even further in their mastery. Shostakovich also was held back by fascist russia.
But on a  artistic scale, Ligeti just doesn't manage to rise above his captors grips.
sad i know, WW2 is never fully over.

[MDL]

look I realize Ligeti's family was brutally mudered by the nazis, and Ligeti  suffer all his life from the horrors of german occupation, he himself never recovered. Who could?
But I wouldn't go over board about his music.
call me cruel, but i have to judge art as it presents itself, aside from the tormented artist.
A great man indeed to pull off the number of works that he did. Nazi germany destroyed many a  great artists, and prevented others, Schonberg, Berg, Webern from going even further in their mastery. Shostakovich also was held back by fascist russia.
But on a  artistic scale, Ligeti just doesn't manage to rise above his captors grips.
sad i know, WW2 is never fully over.

Oh, boy. Who is letting you get within 50 yards of a computer and why are you so determined to embarrass yourself in public?

[paulb]

Ligeti at his finest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8v-uDhcDyg&feature=related

[Ephemerid]

Interesting. Sort of reminds me of Steve Reich's Pendulum Music (I have a feeling you won't care for this Paul...  )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6r3HDn6wFU

Too bad its not the whole thing.  Its one of his early works from the mid 60s...

[paulb]

Hi Josh
I am almost afraid to click the youtube link to Ligeti, so far we 2 just don't get along very well.
i'll keep trying though.
I know what the guy went through. UNREAL sufferings.
I respect the guy for his artisic talent and courage in the face of the monster germans.

EDIT:
Oh no, i thought that was a  link to other Ligeti.
Its Reich on your link. For me thats a worse option for music than Ligeti.

[MDL]

Ligeti at his finest
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8v-uDhcDyg&feature=related

Silly bugger. Ligeti at his finest:

Requiem
Lontano
Atmospheres
Le Grand Macabre

Like many avant-garde, experimental composers, not everything Ligeti wrote is a masterpiece. But his finest works, particularly the Requiem and Lontano, will be adored by audiences long after you and I are pushing up the daisies.  

[paulb]

Le Grand Macabre

I had this and 2 other Sony cds of Ligeti.
You need to read the comments one page over,  on that gawd awful *opera* thingy.
My first run in with Ligeti was over at a  music library, but after being COERCED by Ligeti-ITES, I thought what do I have to lose but $60 for the 5 cds. 

[MDL]

I had this and 2 other Sony cds of Ligeti.
You need to read the comments one page over,  on that gawd awful *opera* thingy.
My first run in with Ligeti was over at a  music library, but after being COERCED by Ligeti-ITES, I thought what do I have to lose but $60 for the 5 cds. 

Well, if you (really) spent $60 on CDs that you subsequently hated, then I have to respect you for at least trying. I would seriously suggest that you borrow (not buy, given your previous bad experiences!!) Gielen's recording of the Requiem. If you really can't get on with that piece, then that's your loss.

[paulb]

Thanks for acknowledging my efforts.
I'll keep an open door for Ligeti in the future. The cd you mention.
Thanks

[greg]

Hi Josh
I am almost afraid to click the youtube link to Ligeti, so far we 2 just don't get along very well.
i'll keep trying though.
I know what the guy went through. UNREAL sufferings.
I respect the guy for his artisic talent and courage in the face of the monster germans.

EDIT:
Oh no, i thought that was a  link to other Ligeti.
Its Reich on your link. For me thats a worse option for music than Ligeti.

here's another one for you, paul 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po0ELeXFQuc&feature=related

[paulb]

Yeah right, as soon as i brought up the page and saw Glass,
DO NOT ENTER

[andy]

look I realize Ligeti's family was brutally mudered by the nazis, and Ligeti  suffer all his life from the horrors of german occupation, he himself never recovered. Who could?
But I wouldn't go over board about his music.
call me cruel, but i have to judge art as it presents itself, aside from the tormented artist.
A great man indeed to pull off the number of works that he did. Nazi germany destroyed many a  great artists, and prevented others, Schonberg, Berg, Webern from going even further in their mastery. Shostakovich also was held back by fascist russia.
But on a  artistic scale, Ligeti just doesn't manage to rise above his captors grips.
sad i know, WW2 is never fully over.

Are you making the implication that Ligeti's music sucked (in your not-so-humble-opinion) because he never recovered from the loss of his family by Nazi Germany?

Wow. I don't have anything to add to MDL's statement:

Oh, boy. Who is letting you get within 50 yards of a computer and why are you so determined to embarrass yourself in public?

[paulb]

Are you making the implication that Ligeti's music sucked (in your not-so-humble-opinion) because he never recovered from the loss of his family by Nazi Germany?

Wow. I don't have anything to add to MDL's statement:

For whatever reasons his music sucks (in my humble and honest opinion) I can't explian based solely on the traumas of nazi brutalities. I do think the nazi's caused some harm to his creative process. No one could go through whAt Ligeti did and not be affected deeply in the creative process.
I hear his music as a  man struggling with the forces of evil, but inescapably succumbing to the evil. The music never rises ina   liberated sense.
If you want to hear someone who did manage to rise about the horrors of fascist brutality , listen to the music of Shostakovich.
Ligeti is a  hero , in that he survived the horror and did not commit suicide, and went on to actually write music. That along makes him a  heroic consciousness.
Shostakovich went further, in that he not only survived emotionally, but he forged a  tremendous creative process in bringing forth powerfully creative works.
Ligeti I am afraid succumbed to the forces of evil. Sad I know, but true.
If you naively think that when Hitler died, that his evil was at the end. Think again, we still see the reprecussions of that fascist attitude within germany even today.

[ChamberNut]

Has anyone mentioned Ligeti's Musica Ricercatas?  How are all of them?

I've only heard the No. 2, from the Eyes Wide Shut soundtrack, and used heavily and very effectively in dramatic moments of the film.  Chilling!

After seeing all of the recommendations for the string quartets, I'll definitely have to explore that further. 

[toledobass]

Shostakovich went further, in that he not only survived emotionally, but he forged a  tremendous creative process in bringing forth powerfully creative works.

It doesn't matter if you like the music or not but, could you explain this more?  How exactly is Ligeti's language not creative?


Allan

[bhodges]

Has anyone mentioned Ligeti's Musica Ricercatas?  How are all of them?

I've only heard the No. 2, from the Eyes Wide Shut soundtrack, and used heavily and very effectively in dramatic moments of the film.  Chilling!

After seeing all of the recommendations for the string quartets, I'll definitely have to explore that further. 

If you like the piano etudes, you'll probably find the Musica Ricercata quite interesting.  Here is a pretty good explanation of the set, that shows the increasing pitches as they go along.

And yes, the string quartets are among the most creative (not to mention, just fun to listen to) of the 20th century.  I don't think it's by accident that there are so many good recordings of them available.

--Bruce

[paulb]

It doesn't matter if you like the music or not but, could you explain this more?  How exactly is Ligeti's language not creative?


Allan

This youtube clip is poor transfer, this sq is actuallly pretty good.
Of the 6 cds I've heard of Ligeti, this q is the only think i like.
thats not to say i will order this Naxos. I may order the sq's in the future, I do not know.
Its possible.
I do hear alot of influence from Bartok and Shostakovich.
though i admit this sq is pretty good, his most creative effort i do believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f9ugcGqJoQ&feature=related

poor transfer, stops all along the way.

[greg]

This youtube clip is poor transfer, this sq is actuallly pretty good.
Of the 6 cds I've heard of Ligeti, this q is the only think i like.
thats not to say i will order this Naxos. I may order the sq's in the future, I do not know.
Its possible.
I do hear alot of influence from Bartok and Shostakovich.
though i admit this sq is pretty good, his most creative effort i do believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f9ugcGqJoQ&feature=related

poor transfer, stops all along the way.

hm, i didn't know they had Ligeti's SQ on youtube.
I looked it up, and wow! that is some seriously good stuff!