György Ligeti (1923-2006)

[Mirror Image]

I was just listening to Angela and Jennifer Chun Play Ligeti's Ballad and Dance on youtube. Some very refined and beautiful music by Ligeti. Most of his other music is hard to listen to and like noise. This doesn't so I would be interested in other works by him like this. This work is short but if there are other longer works that have good melodies I would like some feedback from you all. Sorry I don't have time to read all of this thread to find my answer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnQqlZNP7_c&feature=related

Sounds like you don't even like Ligeti.

[lescamil]

I do like Ligeti, but only when he is well crafted and not harsh. I have searched more on youtube and I found a good work, the Six Bagatelles for Woodwind Quintet. It is earthy but not crude like some of his usual music. This work has the humour of Prokofiev and Poulenc. It is neoclassical and not too atonal. I usually dont like atonal so this is good.

Those are from his early, immature works. They are also not atonal. Many of them even have key signatures. Do try out Ligeti's latest music from the 80s and 90s. These works are often modal and have a similar sort of humor one finds in his immature works, with an eclectic sort of influences. Don't let the harder edge of his works from the 60s and 70s put you off (these works are still great, though).

[Mirror Image]

I do like Ligeti, but only when he is well crafted and not harsh. I have searched more on youtube and I found a good work, the Six Bagatelles for Woodwind Quintet. It is earthy but not crude like some of his usual music. This work has the humour of Prokofiev and Poulenc. It is neoclassical and not too atonal. I usually dont like atonal so this is good.

The early works of Ligeti are of little, if any, interest to me. His mature style is found through works like Lontano, Atmospheres, Clocks and Clouds, Requiem, the Violin Concerto, etc. This is true Ligeti and not Ligeti filtered through a Bartokian lense.

[Mirror Image]

The Modern period is my favorite of them all.

Are you sure? All I've seen you do so far is tear down one Modern composer after another.

[petrarch]

I know most of those and I don't like them because they are very harsh and dark. His Ballad and Dance and Bagatelles which I listened to lately are more pleasant for me and better crafted. I am looking for his music that has more melody and less ugly distorted sounds.

Better crafted than the Chamber Concerto for 13 instrumentalists? Better crafted than Lontano? I guess we have very different concepts of "craft".

Watch this for a good introduction to the man and his music: http://www.ubu.com/film/ligeti_follin.html

[Mirror Image]

I liked those, except the first one which was unpleasant and noisy.

[bwv 1080]

I liked those, except the first one which was unpleasant and noisy. .

Don't be such a weenie

[bwv 1080]

I actually like piano music that is loud if it has purpose. Not just ugly random noise. Like Beethoven's Hammerklavier, which is so far the best of dissonant piano music. Or anything by Scriabin or Debussy, Ravel's Gaspard and many others. I'm just stretching myself with Ligeti's piano music that's it.

the first piece is all about rhythm - listen to the African-inspired polyrhythms - nothing by Beethoven or any of the other composers you mention has anything going on rhythmically like this

[Mirror Image]

the first piece is all about rhythm - listen to the African-inspired polyrhythms - nothing by Beethoven or any of the other composers you mention has anything going on rhythmically like this

Suggestions to this member is futile. He/she simply thinks anything that doesn't fit comfortably into their "box" is somehow noisy, loud, harsh, or all three rolled into one.

[lescamil]

Why does everything have to be idealistic and traditional? Must all piano music sound happy, bright, or like Beethoven and Scriabin? Variety is the spice of life, and Ligeti's whole body of work and its influences teaches us this. "Harsh" sounds are used with a purpose, not just to annoy certain listeners with myopic perceptions of what music "should" be.

[Mirror Image]

Why does everything have to be idealistic and traditional? Must all piano music sound happy, bright, or like Beethoven and Scriabin? Variety is the spice of life, and Ligeti's whole body of work and its influences teaches us this. "Harsh" sounds are used with a purpose, not just to annoy certain listeners with myopic perceptions of what music "should" be.

Great post. This member lives in a plastic bubble.

[Mirror Image]

Why am I attacked for saying what I like and don't like?

Because your opinion(s) reveal ignorance and don't give whoever is reading them much to go on. You keep going on and on without much explanation as to why you dislike this work or that work. More people have heard Ligeti's Atmospheres than a work like Concert Românesc. Ligeti's earlier work isn't recognized much because it was an emulation of other composers that influenced him most notably Bartok, therefore, it isn't distinctive and has little to do with the composer he grew into.

Like I said on another thread, you continue to beat a dead horse.

[Mirror Image]

I have been listening to fine music for a long time and I know what I like and what I don't. I am free to say this here or anywhere else. You have been following me on these threads ever since I joined.

Define fine music. Yes, you can say whatever you want, but bare in mind, I have a right to repute anything you say.

[Mirror Image]

I think I said before I don't care that much about innovation or emulation. But I really care about what makes me feel emotionally attached to the music. You hardly know anything about me I just joined. Youve been on my back ever since.

[Mirror Image]

http://www.youtube.com/v/vOlXgCaKhIQ

Absolutely f****** brilliant! This is the Ligeti we all know and love.

[DavidW]

Recently I've been listening through a big box set of Ligeti and there a couple of gems I really enjoy: the middle movements of the piano concerto and the cello concerto are each haunting and lyrical in their separate ways.

[Mirror Image]

Thank you Heather. I just listened to this work on youtube. It is very lyrical and mournful as you say. The cello strikes such emotion in my soul. This is a Ligeti work that I will listen to often in future. Another discovery.

jhns, here's some Ligeti you might enjoy, it's from his folk-influenced days:

http://www.youtube.com/v/F_XkMdyioFg

To me, these early works of Ligeti sound as if he's trying to please somebody. They don't really bare the composer's true musical voice.

[Mirror Image]

Thank you that concerto by Ligeti is good. I'm listening now. It is like Lutoslawski's early concerto which is folk based. I agree it is not like his typical music but it's what I like. But sometimes I like more experimental music. It depends on what I feel emotionally in the music. I don't mind if it's important to music history or too much like old music.

Glad you enjoyed it. I have a performance of it in the Ligeti box set released by Teldec.

Lutoslawski is still a tough nut for me to crack. I loved his Concerto for Orchestra and much of his early works, but I have a hard time getting into his later output. The problem lies with me though and not with the music.

[lescamil]

To me, these early works of Ligeti sound as if he's trying to please somebody. They don't really bare the composer's true musical voice.

Actually Ligeti composed this way because he lived in Hungary during a time when all "modern" or "formalist" music was banned (so I guess he was trying to please somebody and/or his true musical voice wasn't bared in those works). He was forced to compose in a conservative style during the 40s and 50s due to this. He finally composed in a style he wanted to compose in when he wrote works like Apparitions and Atmosphères, which are the real start of his genius. I like certain early works like the Cello Sonata and the Concerto Romanesc, but they are by no means masterworks and are very derivative. I'll continue to encourage jhns to throw away any preconceived notions about what music (or art in general) "should" be. Masterworks such as Atmosphères and the Requiem aren't universally lauded for nothing.

By the way, my earlier post was not an attack. I am merely trying to do my part in discouraging artistic myopia, which is something that runs all too rampant these days, leaving many modern masters' masterpieces justly underperformed in the concert halls.

[Mirror Image]

Actually Ligeti composed this way because he lived in Hungary during a time when all "modern" or "formalist" music was banned (so I guess he was trying to please somebody and/or his true musical voice wasn't bore in those works). He was forced to compose in a conservative style during the 40s and 50s due to this. He finally composed in a style he wanted to compose in when he wrote works like Apparitions and Atmosphères, which are the real start of his genius. I like certain early works like the Cello Sonata and the Concerto Romanesc, but they are by no means masterworks and are very derivative. I'll continue to encourage jhns to throw away any preconceived notions about what music (or art in general) "should" be. Masterworks such as Atmosphères and the Requiem aren't universally lauded for nothing.

By the way, my earlier post was not an attack. I am merely trying to do my part in discouraging artistic myopia, which is something that runs all too rampant these days, leaving many modern masters' masterpieces justly underperformed in the concert halls.

Well thankfully Ligeti found his music voice and continued to grow as a composer. I like his textural phase with works like Lontano, Atmospheres, Melodien, Clocks and Clouds, San Francisco Polyphony, and the real culmination of this period the Requiem. I like this period of his composing the best, but I do enjoy the Violin Concerto, Hamburg Concerto, and the Piano Concerto a great deal.

I think this member is just mixed up right now and still trying to find what they enjoy, but as I said, Ligeti's earlier works aren't representative of the composer at all.