György Ligeti (1923-2006)

[eyeresist]

There are only two kinds of composers: reactionary and revolutionary. I'm not talking any kind of political agenda. Where the hell did that come from? I'm talking about two different kinds of composers: the traditionalist and the revolutionist. Of course there are composers that were both.

"Reactionary" and "revolutionary" are inherently political terms, and even if they weren't I don't think you can arbitrarily categorise all composers as either of these extremes (or both, since you want to have it both ways). A reactionary composer is by definition not only resisting all change in instrumental and composing technique, but condemning all innovation as perverse and undesirable, and meanwhile the revolutionary composer condemns the old ways as decadent, corrupt and invalid, and scours out of his scores anything which might seem respectful of tradition. There are a small number of composers who might fit these descriptions - I'd say there are about as many "reactionary" and "revolutionary" composers as there are "reactionary" and "revolutionary" listeners, i.e. very few. Most of us are in the middle, and, if we're honest, we like what we like without referring to abstract categories to determine musical value.

[petrarch]

"Lux aeterna" (1966) for sixteen solo voices

Good progress! From there to Lontano or Atmosphères isn't that big of a leap. I bet that if you heard the Chamber Concerto with some help "visualizing" the music you'd get the hang of it in no time.

[DavidW]

Most definitely to both. The first movement of the 'cello concerto--with its gradual movement from the middle register to the single note suspended high above the double bass--was one of the first things by him that really grabbed me.

Cool beans!  I'll have to relisten to the whole cello concerto soon, what a great work!

[lescamil]

Well, clearly your hate for his "experimental" music was just a result of not listening. Great to see that progress is being made. Be sure not to miss Clocks and Clouds, which hopefully will fit your qualifications of "emotional", whatever they are.

[MDL]

I'm in a rush and haven't got time to go through all the pages on this thread, so apologies if this has already been posted a dozen times: a documentary about Ligeti in seven parts. I've only dipped into it so far, but it looks fascinating.

Start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jGyFDHPs2M

[petrarch]

I'm in a rush and haven't got time to go through all the pages on this thread, so apologies if this has already been posted a dozen times: a documentary about Ligeti in seven parts. I've only dipped into it so far, but it looks fascinating.

Start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jGyFDHPs2M

Available in a single part at http://www.ubu.com/film/ligeti_follin.html

[MDL]

Available in a single part at http://www.ubu.com/film/ligeti_follin.html

Whoo-hoo! Even better. Ta!

[snyprrr]

PIANO CONCERTO


Listened to this last night again. I find it a very delicate piece. It's not the most virtuoso piece ever, even though it contains much Ligeti Etude writing. In all, there's nothing 'wrong' with this piece, it's just a very accessible, modern PC in five movements. Not much to say here, is there? I do like the ocarinas!

[Lethevich]

Assuming a person has the three boxes (DG, Teldec and Sony), are there any major works not included in these sets, and could any recordings of them be suggested? (I am looking to "finish" my collection.) I wonder how many discs Wergo recorded?

[CRCulver]

Assuming a person has the three boxes (DG, Teldec and Sony), are there any major works not included in these sets, and could any recordings of them be suggested? (I am looking to "finish" my collection.) I wonder how many discs Wergo recorded?

Together, the Sony and the Teldec sets collect all the pieces that Ligeti recognized in performances he considered definitive. There are really no "major works" outside that collection.

If you feel like a Ligeti completist, then the only really necessary additional purchases are that Wergo disc with his tape piece Glissandi, suppressed as juvenalia, and a BIS disc where Ullen performs a piano étude that Ligeti decided not to include in the canonical set. Also, Ramifications exists in two versions (for string orchestra or solo strings), and only one of those versions is in the Sony-Teldec collection, so you might want to get a separate recording of the other version.

[Lethevich]

Thank you both I have my eye on the Ullen disc, although not neccessarily for the extra etude - though that does add another reason for me to pick it up.

[CRCulver]

Oh yes, I forgot Book 3 of the Piano Etudes. If you want them in performances by Aimard, Ligeti's handpicked pianist, then you'll need to get the Teldec African Rhythms where Aimard performs these pieces alongside recordings of the Aka Pygmies who inspired Ligeti.

[Lethevich]

I've picked up from various mentions (although can't recall where) that Ligeti's powers were declining a little during the writing of that third etude book - would that be fair to say?

[CRCulver]

I've picked up from various mentions (although can't recall where) that Ligeti's powers were declining a little during the writing of that third etude book - would that be fair to say?

Who knows whether it was declining powers or merely revised compositional goals, but the pieces in Book 3 are nowhere near as complex and overtly virtuosic like the first two books. Still worth collecting IMHO, because the Aka Pygmies music on that disc is amazing.

[not edward]

I've picked up from various mentions (although can't recall where) that Ligeti's powers were declining a little during the writing of that third etude book - would that be fair to say?

Yes.

To my mind, the best piece from his last ten years is the song cycle Síppal, dobbal, nádihegedüvel, which though not major Ligeti retains the imagination and magic of his best works. The Hamburg Concerto also does to some extent, though it seems not fully fleshed out to me (the extra final movement added in 2003 did help some, though). The third book of Etudes and the viola sonata are the most disappointing to my ears; inspiration is at a low ebb and they feel a bit routine to me (a description that I would say fits very little of Ligeti's output).

[Madiel]

Hello all you Ligeti fans.

He's just been a name to me thus far.  I'm having a look at the DG "Clear and Cloudy" box set, and doing those lovely 90-second iTunes samples.  Yes, yes, I know perfectly well it doesn't tell me a lot about a 10-minute plus piece of music... but it works well for String Quartet No.1 where there are movements of less than a minute!

Just wondering, are the recordings in the set generally considered good ones.  Earlier indications from this thread seem to be a 'yes'.

EDIT: And I know the cello/piano/violin concertos were literally award-winning. Apart from that, the Penguin Guide is beginning to demonstrate how useless it is becoming these days - I have 2003, 2008 and 2010 editions and they all have the exact same reviews of the exact same discs. 

[CRCulver]

I'm having a look at the DG "Clear and Cloudy" box set... Just wondering, are the recordings in the set generally considered good ones.  Earlier indications from this thread seem to be a 'yes'.

They are good. However, I'd recommend getting the Sony box set instead of the DG one, because the composer considered those recordings definitive. (The Sony box set seems a little expensive now, but you could also collect the individual discs, the string quartets are on volume 1 for all of US$4.)

The String Quartet No. 1 is not especially representative of Ligeti's work. It is much more imitative of Bartók than other pieces written in the same era.

[Madiel]

They are good. However, I'd recommend getting the Sony box set instead of the DG one, because the composer considered those recordings definitive. (The Sony box set seems a little expensive now, but you could also collect the individual discs, the string quartets are on volume 1 for all of US$4.)

The String Quartet No. 1 is not especially representative of Ligeti's work. It is much more imitative of Bartók than other pieces written in the same era.

Right now it's DG or nothing, simply because I am looking at a particular sale from a retailer here in Australia, and I've spent quite enough on music in the last few weeks without going hunting for further options beyond the 120-odd boxes they're offering me!

Yes, I'm aware SQ No.1 isn't terribly representative, I mentioned it only because I could hear a lot of it via the quirks of iTunes' criteria. It's been interesting to see what I've responded to, from these quick samples.  The 6 bagatelles for wind quintet were appealing, but I know they're early. Ramifications and Melodien both sounded promising.  But Aventures and Nouvelles Aventures were definitely things I'd need to work up to!

[Mirror Image]

Hello all you Ligeti fans.

He's just been a name to me thus far.  I'm having a look at the DG "Clear and Cloudy" box set, and doing those lovely 90-second iTunes samples.  Yes, yes, I know perfectly well it doesn't tell me a lot about a 10-minute plus piece of music... but it works well for String Quartet No.1 where there are movements of less than a minute!

Just wondering, are the recordings in the set generally considered good ones.  Earlier indications from this thread seem to be a 'yes'.

EDIT: And I know the cello/piano/violin concertos were literally award-winning. Apart from that, the Penguin Guide is beginning to demonstrate how useless it is becoming these days - I have 2003, 2008 and 2010 editions and they all have the exact same reviews of the exact same discs. 

I don't understand why you don't go for The Ligeti Project box set on Warner? I mean it's simply one of the best sets of music I've ever encountered. All the performances are outstanding and it can be bought cheap as well. The DG set, in my view, is only for completist.

[Madiel]

I don't understand why you don't go for The Ligeti Project box set on Warner?

Because my wallet is not a bottomless pit.

I've already explained the criteria, whether you accept them or not the criteria in this instance are (1) store has been selected, (2) now considering composers. It certainly isn't the way that I buy my music most of the time, but at this point of time that's the rule I've imposed on myself and I'm sticking with it.  Store is not offering Warner box set. Therefore, Warner box set is not being bought.