György Ligeti (1923-2006)

[EigenUser]

Oh, cool! I already edited the post just to include the links, but thanks for the tip!

[Mirror Image]

BTW, Bartok is another one of my heroes. Incredible composer. I would have loved to speak with him as well. Also, all of those Ligeti works you linked are top-notch. Love each of them. That Ligeti Project Warner box set is still one of my most cherished musical possessions.

[Mirror Image]

Oh, cool! I already edited the post just to include the links, but thanks for the tip!

You're welcome! By the way, it's great seeing another Ravel fan around here.

[EigenUser]

You know, I read Toop's biography of Ligeti (from a series on 20th-century composers) and I was very upset to find out that Ligeti wasn't too fond of Ravel (preferring Debussy). Then, of course, there's the whole thing with Ravel being a huge fan of Mozart, who I really dislike in general (I think this is the point where I get blacklisted from the forums, right?). I guess it just goes to show you that even the "greats" have preferences.

Bartok was my first favorite composer, along with Mendelssohn. Once I discovered Ligeti, I really opened up to the idea of music without straightforward melody (i.e. music emphasizing texture, timbre, and harmony). This also led me to appreciate other composers much more (i.e. Debussy) and with a different perspective.

I like both the Ligeti Project and the "Clear or Cloudy" set. I was always mad that "Clear or Cloudy" didn't have "Clocks and Clouds" (I bought it because I thought that the title implied it, haha). It has so much great music on it that I could hardly feel ripped-off, though. Plus, it has some awesome album art (right up there with the cover of the legendary Reiner recording of Bartok's "Concerto for Orchestra):



"Clocks and Clouds" was his first piece I heard. I even asked for (and received) a copy of the conductor's score for Christmas last year. It is not published as a study score, but Schott sold my parents the full rental-set score. For me, this is probably my most cherished musical possession.

[kishnevi]

You know, I read Toop's biography of Ligeti (from a series on 20th-century composers) and I was very upset to find out that Ligeti wasn't too fond of Ravel (preferring Debussy). Then, of course, there's the whole thing with Ravel being a huge fan of Mozart, who I really dislike in general (I think this is the point where I get blacklisted from the forums, right?). I guess it just goes to show you that even the "greats" have preferences.

Bartok was my first favorite composer, along with Mendelssohn. Once I discovered Ligeti, I really opened up to the idea of music without straightforward melody (i.e. music emphasizing texture, timbre, and harmony). This also led me to appreciate other composers much more (i.e. Debussy) and with a different perspective.

I like both the Ligeti Project and the "Clear or Cloudy" set. I was always mad that "Clear or Cloudy" didn't have "Clocks and Clouds" (I bought it because I thought that the title implied it, haha). It has so much great music on it that I could hardly feel ripped-off, though. Plus, it has some awesome album art (right up there with the cover of the legendary Reiner recording of Bartok's "Concerto for Orchestra):



"Clocks and Clouds" was his first piece I heard. I even asked for (and received) a copy of the conductor's score for Christmas last year. It is not published as a study score, but Schott sold my parents the full rental-set score. For me, this is probably my most cherished musical possession.

Well,  I too prefer Debussy to Ravel,  but I also like Mozart.  So there   
I've had the Warner Ligeti Project box for several years;  I can't say I like any of the music there.  I have a problem with the orchestral works of many 20th century composers, and like several of them (Carter is another good example) I have a much easier time with Ligeti's works for smaller ensembles;  I've loved the Piano Etudes and the String Quartets from the moment I first heard them.  One reason why I decided to go for the Sony box now, which seems to be already going out of print.
[asin]B00303WQMO[/asin]

[Mirror Image]

You know, I read Toop's biography of Ligeti (from a series on 20th-century composers) and I was very upset to find out that Ligeti wasn't too fond of Ravel (preferring Debussy). Then, of course, there's the whole thing with Ravel being a huge fan of Mozart, who I really dislike in general (I think this is the point where I get blacklisted from the forums, right?). I guess it just goes to show you that even the "greats" have preferences.

Bartok was my first favorite composer, along with Mendelssohn. Once I discovered Ligeti, I really opened up to the idea of music without straightforward melody (i.e. music emphasizing texture, timbre, and harmony). This also led me to appreciate other composers much more (i.e. Debussy) and with a different perspective.

I like both the Ligeti Project and the "Clear or Cloudy" set. I was always mad that "Clear or Cloudy" didn't have "Clocks and Clouds" (I bought it because I thought that the title implied it, haha). It has so much great music on it that I could hardly feel ripped-off, though. Plus, it has some awesome album art (right up there with the cover of the legendary Reiner recording of Bartok's "Concerto for Orchestra):



"Clocks and Clouds" was his first piece I heard. I even asked for (and received) a copy of the conductor's score for Christmas last year. It is not published as a study score, but Schott sold my parents the full rental-set score. For me, this is probably my most cherished musical possession.

I need to revisit that Clear or Cloudy set on DG. I remember enjoying it but not as much as the Warner set. Don't worry I'm not a big Mozart fan either, but I'm definitely not going to turning this into a Mozart bash fest as this just isn't my style. He has too many admirers and a secured place in history to really say anything disparaging about him. Anyway, I hear you with texture, timbre, and harmony. I'm really into these aspects of music as well. Have you listened to any Scelsi? You may or may not be ready for him, but do check him out at some point. Also, have checked out any Dutilleux? He's another composer I think would be right up your alley since you enjoy Ligeti.

Clocks & Clouds is an incredible piece of music. Completely mesmerizing. I love it. The first work by Ligeti I heard was Melodien and I knew after that initial listen I was in for many more pleasant surprises.

[EigenUser]

Well,  I too prefer Debussy to Ravel,  but I also like Mozart.  So there   
I've had the Warner Ligeti Project box for several years;  I can't say I like any of the music there.  I have a problem with the orchestral works of many 20th century composers, and like several of them (Carter is another good example) I have a much easier time with Ligeti's works for smaller ensembles;  I've loved the Piano Etudes and the String Quartets from the moment I first heard them.  One reason why I decided to go for the Sony box now, which seems to be already going out of print.
[asin]B00303WQMO[/asin]

Interestingly, I usually am the opposite. I have more trouble with 20th-century chamber music and I prefer the sound of the 20th-century orchestra. I still don't understand Ligeti's 2nd String Quartet. I like his 1st String Quartet, but that doesn't really count so much since it is very reminiscent of Bartok (ironically, I've only warmed up to the third out of all six of Bartok's quartets and Bartok is my favorite composer).

I need to revisit that Clear or Cloudy set on DG. I remember enjoying it but not as much as the Warner set. Don't worry I'm not a big Mozart fan either, but I'm definitely not going to turning this into a Mozart bash fest as this just isn't my style. He has too many admirers and a secured place in history to really say anything disparaging about him. Anyway, I hear you with texture, timbre, and harmony. I'm really into these aspects of music as well. Have you listened to any Scelsi? You may or may not be ready for him, but do check him out at some point. Also, have checked out any Dutilleux? He's another composer I think would be right up your alley since you enjoy Ligeti.

Clocks & Clouds is an incredible piece of music. Completely mesmerizing. I love it. The first work by Ligeti I heard was Melodien and I knew after that initial listen I was in for many more pleasant surprises.

I've heard the names of both Dutilleux and Scelsi, but I don't know specific works. Any recommendations?

[Mirror Image]

I've heard the names of both Dutilleux and Scelsi, but I don't know specific works. Any recommendations?

I suggest ALL of Dutilleux's and Scelsi's orchestral works. But to get specific, first check out this work by Scelsi:

http://www.youtube.com/v/H__4F3t4IxE

I love this work and I wish I could tell you why. I suppose it's just the whole textural, atmospheric aspect of the work that I love. If you like this then do check out more of Scelsi.

For Dutilleux, it's always hard to beat Symphony No. 2 'Le double':

http://www.youtube.com/v/4jm6CKA6RRs

I hope you enjoy them.

[North Star]

Well,  I too prefer Debussy to Ravel,  but I also like Mozart.  So there   
I've had the Warner Ligeti Project box for several years;  I can't say I like any of the music there.  I have a problem with the orchestral works of many 20th century composers, and like several of them (Carter is another good example) I have a much easier time with Ligeti's works for smaller ensembles;  I've loved the Piano Etudes and the String Quartets from the moment I first heard them.  One reason why I decided to go for the Sony box now, which seems to be already going out of print.

I own that Piano Etudes disc, and love it too. I'd certainly want to get the whole box at some point. But then again I like the Warner Ligeti Project set just fine, too.

You know, I read Toop's biography of Ligeti (from a series on 20th-century composers) and I was very upset to find out that Ligeti wasn't too fond of Ravel (preferring Debussy). Then, of course, there's the whole thing with Ravel being a huge fan of Mozart, who I really dislike in general (I think this is the point where I get blacklisted from the forums, right?). I guess it just goes to show you that even the "greats" have preferences.

Bartok was my first favorite composer, along with Mendelssohn. Once I discovered Ligeti, I really opened up to the idea of music without straightforward melody (i.e. music emphasizing texture, timbre, and harmony). This also led me to appreciate other composers much more (i.e. Debussy) and with a different perspective.

I'm not too big on people who don't like Mozart, but that wouldn't matter, if only you'd prefer Ravel over Debussy. 
The "greats" are quite often the ones with the strongest and most peculiar preferences indeed, but that usually has sth to do with them being artist with their own goals.

I suggest ALL of Dutilleux's and Scelsi's orchestral works. But to get specific, first check out this work by Scelsi:

I love this work and I wish I could tell you why. I suppose it's just the whole textural, atmospheric aspect of the work that I love. If you like this then do check out more of Scelsi.

For Dutilleux, it's always hard to beat Symphony No. 2 'Le double':

+1 to both.

And the SQ Ainsi la nuit, too!   Here be the Dutilleux thread
http://www.youtube.com/v/KhfESb2OG2E&

[Pessoa]

Coming September 25th ..

[asin]B008P76XCY[/asin]

I was watching this last night, subtlited in Catalan as shown on a local TV channel. Music, singing,staging, film editing... I deeply enjoyed it. As for the moral of the story (it seems there was one, as sung as a conclusion at he end of the opera), I found it hackeneyed and unnecessary ( enjoy life while we are at it? never heard or thought of that before. ), an intellectual letdown in an overall delicious experience.
Although, on second thoughts, that is ok in the medieval tradition of dances of death...

[EigenUser]

I'm not too big on people who don't like Mozart, but that wouldn't matter, if only you'd prefer Ravel over Debussy. 
The "greats" are quite often the ones with the strongest and most peculiar preferences indeed, but that usually has sth to do with them being artist with their own goals.

Actually, I do prefer Ravel over Debussy. I tend to connect more with Ravel's music for some reason, though I do love Debussy's orchestral music like "La Mer", "Trois Nocturnes", and especially "Jeux". Forget about the silly plot with boy playing tennis and getting distracted by two girls dancing in the bushes -- "Jeux" is a near-perfect score for a Tom and Jerry cartoon, in my mind. Also, I don't know why people (myself included) group Ravel and Debussy together so frequently. Other than being French and living in the early 1900s, I don't see that they're all that similar. I'm certainly not trying to argue that they're worlds apart, but they don't seem to be as similar as people like to think. It seems to me that Ravel's music is far more varied, though I'm sure that this is quite debatable. Concerning Mozart, I'd never argue that he wrote bad music (whatever this might mean). It's just not for me, that's all.

I suggest ALL of Dutilleux's and Scelsi's orchestral works. But to get specific, first check out this work by Scelsi:

http://www.youtube.com/v/H__4F3t4IxE

I love this work and I wish I could tell you why. I suppose it's just the whole textural, atmospheric aspect of the work that I love. If you like this then do check out more of Scelsi.

For Dutilleux, it's always hard to beat Symphony No. 2 'Le double':

http://www.youtube.com/v/4jm6CKA6RRs

I hope you enjoy them.

So, I didn't quite get the Scelsi, but I'll be sure to revisit him from time to time. It reminded me a little bit of early Penderecki (who I kind of like, or at least respect greatly), but somewhat more subdued. At least, that was my first impression. I liked the Dutilleux "Symphony No. 2", but I also listened to his "Symphony No. 1" which I really liked a lot.

I was watching this last night, subtlited in Catalan as shown on a local TV channel. Music, singing,staging, film editing... I deeply enjoyed it. As for the moral of the story (it seems there was one, as sung as a conclusion at he end of the opera), I found it hackeneyed and unnecessary ( enjoy life while we are at it? never heard or thought of that before. ), an intellectual letdown in an overall delicious experience.
Although, on second thoughts, that is ok in the medieval tradition of dances of death...

I saw "Le Grand Macabre" on YouTube. I can't say that I enjoyed most of it (opera doesn't do much for me), but I love the three arias arranged under the title "Mysteries of the Macabre". There is a version for trumpet (in C) and piano. I have a friend who is quite remarkable at the piano and we performed this last year in college. Since I play violin and not the trumpet, I played the trumpet part on violin. I suspect that it's far easier on violin than on trumpet because the part wasn't hard to learn and I'm not that great at violin (putting it together, however, was extremely difficult -- fast 11/8 + 7/8 time for large sections). To make it more "authentic", we went back to the score of the opera and included several miscellaneous percussion instruments (bongos, temple blocks, slapstick, maracas, police and train whistles). It was a blast.

[EigenUser]

Does anyone here understand/appreciate/enjoy Ligeti's "Cello Concerto"? I never could make this work out. I've listened to it several times (with and without the score in hand) and I actually don't think that it sounds very good. I mean, the first movement is okay; to me it is similar in principle to "Lontano", but nowhere near as interesting. The second movement just sounds, well, like random notes. Especially in the second half. I'm not sure if the problem is with me or if it is generally considered to be a weaker piece of his. It reminds me of the "Aventures" and "Nouvelle Aventures" without the three voices.

[not edward]

Does anyone here understand/appreciate/enjoy Ligeti's "Cello Concerto"? I never could make this work out. I've listened to it several times (with and without the score in hand) and I actually don't think that it sounds very good. I mean, the first movement is okay; to me it is similar in principle to "Lontano", but nowhere near as interesting. The second movement just sounds, well, like random notes. Especially in the second half. I'm not sure if the problem is with me or if it is generally considered to be a weaker piece of his. It reminds me of the "Aventures" and "Nouvelle Aventures" without the three voices.

It's definitely a work that, if it has any sort of unity, finds it in diversity. As you note, the first movement--which I find very beautiful--is a clear example of Ligeti's cluster style, albeit with an unexpectedly simple and obvious process behind it: music beginning in the alto register and extending both down and up, as the sounds in the alto register fall away to leave the solo cello floating far above the double basses.

This had apparently originally been intended as the first section of a single-movement work, but had expanded to last nearly half the work's duration; the second movement is the remaining twenty-something-odd segments of the original design and could be (very loosely) regarded as a variation set. In its eclecticism and rapid mood switches it reminds me somewhat of the Dies Irae from the Requiem, though Aventures and Nouvelle Aventures are probably good parallels too. (I've not listened to them in a long time as they're amongst the rare Ligeti works I do not particularly enjoy.)

Overall, I would struggle to regard the work as of a comparable quality to the Requiem or Lontano, to note the orchestral works that came before and after it. I'd probably still prefer it to some of the lesser works of the period such as Ramifications and the Double Concerto.

[kishnevi]

Quick question:
I know have both the Warner "Ligeti Project" and Sony "Ligeti Edition" boxes. 

I vaguely remember a reference to a recording of Book III of the Etudes containing material not recorded by Aimard, and therefore not in the Sony box.  Is there anything else by Ligeti not represented in some form or other in or another of the two sets.  I'm not referring to, eg, the first version of Le Grand Macabre (the Sony box includes the--more or less-final version)--that is, not to works from which two or more versions issued from Ligeti's pen, but to works not included at all.

And if someone could point again to that recording of Book III I would appreciate it.

[North Star]

Here's a recording of all the Books:
[asin]B009EP39XM[/asin]

[kishnevi]

Thanks, I've wishlisted it for the present.   

One can only hopes that no one ever refers to this recording as the "the Etudes from Hell". 

[not edward]

Quick question:
I know have both the Warner "Ligeti Project" and Sony "Ligeti Edition" boxes. 

I vaguely remember a reference to a recording of Book III of the Etudes containing material not recorded by Aimard, and therefore not in the Sony box.  Is there anything else by Ligeti not represented in some form or other in or another of the two sets.  I'm not referring to, eg, the first version of Le Grand Macabre (the Sony box includes the--more or less-final version)--that is, not to works from which two or more versions issued from Ligeti's pen, but to works not included at all.

And if someone could point again to that recording of Book III I would appreciate it.

The late '50s electronic piece Glissandi never appeared in either the Warner or Sony productions. It did appear on this Wergo disc:

[asin]B000025R93[/asin]

The last three etudes in book 3 also: Aimard recorded them (without the first. for some reason) here:

[asin]B00008UVCD[/asin]

As well as Hell, there are other recordings of book 3 that are complete: Ullen's 2CD set may be as good an option as any: his book 3 is rather rushed but the set comes with some obscurities, such as a withdrawn etude from Book 2 and a musically negligible parody of 4'33". I couldn't find an Amazon link to the CD edition, but I know it exists as my copy's almost within arm's reach right now.

Be aware that some "complete etudes" aren't quite complete: for example Toros Can's went to print with one etude as yet unwritten.

[kishnevi]

Again, they've been wishlisted, with thanks. 

I was going to say that Aimard didn't include the first etude of Book III on that CD because he had already done it for the CD that is now in the Sony box--until I noticed the CD includes some etudes from Book II, which fact boots my idea out the window....

I take it the Ullen CDs are these ones here (links should work even if the images don't show)
[asin]B0000016NT[/asin]
[asin]B00000FY07[/asin]

(I guess the Amazon search engine knows better than to displease Oz the Great and Powerful.)

[EigenUser]

Thanks, I've wishlisted it for the present.   

One can only hopes that no one ever refers to this recording as the "the Etudes from Hell". 

Haha, they are the etudes from hell. "Fanfares" is a b**** to learn (and deceiving, since the first 2-3 pages are fairly simple). Then again, I'm a mediocre, untrained pianist. I would never be able to learn this up to performance standards, or even close.

By the way, I found book 3 to be less inspired and less creative overall compared to 1+2. Understandable though, considering Ligeti's health was failing.

[Joaquimhock]

Quick question:
I know have both the Warner "Ligeti Project" and Sony "Ligeti Edition" boxes. 

I vaguely remember a reference to a recording of Book III of the Etudes containing material not recorded by Aimard, and therefore not in the Sony box.  Is there anything else by Ligeti not represented in some form or other in or another of the two sets.  I'm not referring to, eg, the first version of Le Grand Macabre (the Sony box includes the--more or less-final version)--that is, not to works from which two or more versions issued from Ligeti's pen, but to works not included at all.

And if someone could point again to that recording of Book III I would appreciate it.

There is also a piece influenced by Fluxus artistic movement called "Fragment" for cbsn - bass tbn, cb.tbn - perc - hp, cem, pno - 3 cb

http://www.universaledition.com/Fragment-for-chamber-orchestra-Gyoergy-Ligeti/composers-and-works/composer/430/work/2532

It has been recorded and it exists on a very rare CD of an Austrian festival. Ligeti said it was just a joke and it is certainly not one of his masterpieces, but it is however interesting to hear it. Very few notes during almost 6 minutes... In the same style than Aventures/Nouvelles Aventures.

And there are many juvenilia somewhere in the Sacher foundation archives...

As far as I know no unpublished works appeared after his death... I wonder if it will happen one day. All great composers leave somthing unheard.