György Ligeti (1923-2006)

[EigenUser]

Thanks... this looks interesting. Louise Duchesneau and Lukas Ligeti might be the two people best positioned to talk about his late music.

It was interesting. I didn't learn many new things, but I enjoyed the interviews. That train story was horrifying.

And I loved Ligeti's "real" interpretation of the 4th movement from his PC (as opposed to the common fractal explanation). Made me laugh.

[EigenUser]

Tomorrow (May 28th) is going to be Gyorgy Ligeti's 91st birthday! That one's easy for me to remember since it is coincident with my grandfather's birthday. In fact, out of my three favorite composers, Ravel is the only one who's birthday I can't remember since it doesn't fall on a day that is significant to me.

One of the main themes in the fourth movement of his piano concerto is strikingly similar to "Happy Birthday", by the way (Ken, I'm still trying to find "Hey Jude" in the Requiem... ). I'm not kidding -- see for yourselves. It's played most obviously and "plainly" at 4:22 in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/v/LiAmhiB2-fs

[Ken B]

Tomorrow (May 28th) is going to be Gyorgy Ligeti's 91st birthday! That one's easy for me to remember since it is coincident with my grandfather's birthday. In fact, out of my three favorite composers, Ravel is the only one who's birthday I can't remember since it doesn't fall on a day that is significant to me.

One of the main themes in the fourth movement of his piano concerto is strikingly similar to "Happy Birthday", by the way (Ken, I'm still trying to find "Hey Jude" in the Requiem... ). I'm not kidding -- see for yourselves. It's played most obviously and "plainly" at 4:22 in the video.
http://www.youtube.com/v/LiAmhiB2-fs

Trap! Trap!

[EigenUser]

Here is a 2-minute clip from an interesting interview with Ligeti's assistant Louise Duchesneau (from a BBC Sunday special). She talks about how the fourth movement of the piano concerto is not just associated with fractals (as commonly thought), but also his love of the Marx Brothers.
[audio]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/2swva15fqlysvji/LigetiPC_4thMov.mp3[/audio]

[71 dB]

Having now listened to the Teldec 5 CD Ligeti boxset "The Ligeti Project", I have to say Ligeti has been a surprise for me. I never realised he is this excentric, crazy and versatile composer. The boxset sounds as if it contained music from 10 different composers. The only common thing of the compositions is weirdness. Ligeti goes from traditional to futuristic, from organic to mechanical, from sane to insane. Ligeti is the Aphex Twin of classical music (or the other way around - Aphex Twin is the Ligeti of electronic music).

'Aventures, Nouvelles Aventures' is among the most insane pieces of music I have heard in my life and I have heard some crazy stuff (such as 'Trip to the Moon' by Acen).

The boxset was such an injection of excentricity. After listening to it trought I feel like wanting to hear something "normal" for now. Corelli's Op. 6 or something like that...

I simply can't comment on how much I like Ligeti, but he is interesting for sure! 

[EigenUser]

Having now listened to the Teldec 5 CD Ligeti boxset "The Ligeti Project", I have to say Ligeti has been a surprise for me. I never realised he is this excentric, crazy and versatile composer. The boxset sounds as if it contained music from 10 different composers. The only common thing of the compositions is weirdness. Ligeti goes from traditional to futuristic, from organic to mechanical, from sane to insane. Ligeti is the Aphex Twin of classical music (or the other way around - Aphex Twin is the Ligeti of electronic music).

'Aventures, Nouvelles Aventures' is among the most insane pieces of music I have heard in my life and I have heard some crazy stuff (such as 'Trip to the Moon' by Acen).

The boxset was such an injection of excentricity. After listening to it trought I feel like wanting to hear something "normal" for now. Corelli's Op. 6 or something like that...

I simply can't comment on how much I like Ligeti, but he is interesting for sure! 

Yes, there is absolutely a wide variety in his music. The more you get to know it, though, the more common threads you will find between pieces that don't even remotely seem related.

The boxset was such an injection of excentricity. After listening to it trought I feel like wanting to hear something "normal" for now. Corelli's Op. 6 or something like that...

That's just what your ears and mind want you to think .

[kishnevi]

Is there actually only one recording of the Hamburg Concerto?  Amazon and Arkivmusic both say so, and I am hoping they are wrong, as I don't seem to go for the one in the Warner box (de Leeuw/Asko Ensemble), and am wondering if its the performance or the music at fault.

[Mirror Image]

I like the Hamburg Concerto, Jeffrey, but I believe this Teldec performance is the only one available of it.

[71 dB]

Aimard's Ligeti Piano CD on Sony came yesterday. Listened to it one time. Pretty incomprehensible to me at this point. 

I also received the Boulez conducts Ligeti CD. I think I have enough Ligeti for now.

Ligeti is a monster. But wait until you explore Karlheinz Stockhausen seriously .. oh boy, look out.

Stockhausen seems difficult to explore. No cheap boxes available. I didn't even find the 'Oktophonie' anywhere. 

[EigenUser]

Is there actually only one recording of the Hamburg Concerto?  Amazon and Arkivmusic both say so, and I am hoping they are wrong, as I don't seem to go for the one in the Warner box (de Leeuw/Asko Ensemble), and am wondering if its the performance or the music at fault.

Yes, there is only one recording. It is a great little piece. Especially the third movement.

Keep in mind that it was only composed in 1999 (and revised in 2003, three years before Ligeti's death) so it isn't yet a cause for concern. The BPO is playing it this season and it has apparently been taken up by a few horn players. Ligeti's publisher Schott is creating a horn/piano reduction* of the work, which will also help garner attention.

*In case anyone isn't familiar with this, a solo/piano reduction is just a way for soloists to be able to practice their part without needing an entire orchestra. So, the orchestra part is "reduced" (i.e. arranged) for a solo pianist and the concerto soloist plays along with them. This also allows the soloist to obtain a practice part since they are usually otherwise rental-only (that is, the orchestra rents a set of performance material/parts from the publisher). This probably has a significant factor on recording chances since it makes the music much more obtainable. Rental-only music can be very, very difficult to obtain (trust me!).

[not edward]

Is there actually only one recording of the Hamburg Concerto?  Amazon and Arkivmusic both say so, and I am hoping they are wrong, as I don't seem to go for the one in the Warner box (de Leeuw/Asko Ensemble), and am wondering if its the performance or the music at fault.

I doubt the problem is the performance. Marie-Luise Neunecker is a phenomenal player and her reading of the Horn Trio is sensational.

My take on the Hamburg Concerto is that it reflects Ligeti's poor health at the time it was written: there are some striking ideas but it's more a sequence of twelve short miniatures* than a conventional concerto like the violin and piano ones. I think the final movement (added some years after the rest, and the last thing Ligeti wrote), does help the structure to gel a better, but with the exception of the Praeludium and Spectra the work seems atypically underdeveloped to me.


* The second and third movements could both be regarded as two movements played without a break; the fourth movement could be regarded as four movements played without a break.

[71 dB]

KS has his own label .. and you can buy all of his recordings here: http://www.stockhausencds.com/  .. Oktophonie is CD 41

Oh, that explains things. Stockhausen is like Tangerine Dream in this sense. 104 CDs released! How many of these do you have James?

Thanks!

[Mirror Image]

Ligeti is a monster. But wait until you explore Karlheinz Stockhausen seriously .. oh boy, look out.

Why must you always turn a thread into your own personal fanboy gushing over Stockhausen? He's not the messiah, James, but that's probably not what you believe.

[Ken B]

Why must you always turn a thread into your own personal fanboy gushing over Stockhausen? He's not the messiah, James, but that's probably not what you believe.

Cough cough Delius cough

[North Star]

Cough cough Delius cough

Get a vaccination, Ken, and go to your own room.

[EigenUser]

Why must you always turn a thread into your own personal fanboy gushing over Stockhausen?

Well, I always assumed that it was the same reason that I always turn a thread into my own personal fanboy gushing over Ligeti .

EigenUser in the "Purchases Today" thread:
Buy more Ligeti!

EigenUser in the "Three-Word Post" thread:
Ligeti Ligeti Ligeti

EigenUser in the "What are you eating" thread:
You know who also liked spaghetti? Ligeti!

I doubt the problem is the performance. Marie-Luise Neunecker is a phenomenal player and her reading of the Horn Trio is sensational.

My take on the Hamburg Concerto is that it reflects Ligeti's poor health at the time it was written: there are some striking ideas but it's more a sequence of twelve short miniatures* than a conventional concerto like the violin and piano ones. I think the final movement (added some years after the rest, and the last thing Ligeti wrote), does help the structure to gel a better, but with the exception of the Praeludium and Spectra the work seems atypically underdeveloped to me.


* The second and third movements could both be regarded as two movements played without a break; the fourth movement could be regarded as four movements played without a break.

Indeed, twelve short miniatures is a good way of looking at the piece. That's probably why I like it so much, too.

Does anyone else get terrified by the ending? It's like the end of a score to a horror movie. Gives me the creeps.

KS has his own label .. and you can buy all of his recordings here: http://www.stockhausencds.com/  .. Oktophonie is CD 41

Stockhausen CDs are way overpriced. I know that they come with a lot of documentation, etc (he was very good with being complete in documentation and his scores are the same way -- often with photos of the premiere in the front), but the prices are ridiculous. How can one be expected to start explore his music? I mean, I guess you could get his earlier works from other record companies, but that's a pretty narrow range of his output. His label makes the same mistake that Messiaen's (score) publisher Alphonse-Leduc makes. That is, they sell their products at exorbitant prices while the market interest is very, very small. It's a shame, really. That kind of stuff really irritates me. I expect that Messiaen's roughly-$3000 opera score has gilded notes.

[Mirror Image]

Well, I always assumed that it was the same reason that I always turn a thread into my own personal fanboy gushing over Ligeti .

EigenUser in the "Purchases Today" thread:
Buy more Ligeti!

EigenUser in the "Three-Word Post" thread:
Ligeti Ligeti Ligeti

EigenUser in the "What are you eating" thread:
You know who also liked spaghetti? Ligeti!

[EigenUser]

This is an outstanding overview of the PC:
https://www.youtube.com/v/mfTDjrndPHI

[71 dB]

Somehow I drifted away from exploring/listening to Ligeti for months. I'm trying to get back into it now. Ligeti is very vague to grasp as an artist. I also feel I never understood how important composer Ligeti is. So, I have been confused. Ligeti's music intimidates and fascinates me in a way I don't think I have ever experienced but there is also something hindering the experiment. Maybe Ligeti lived 100 years too early and should have born in 2023 to create a sophisticated style of computer music? I find Ligeti's art very "computer-like".

[EigenUser]

Somehow I drifted away from exploring/listening to Ligeti for months. I'm trying to get back into it now. Ligeti is very vague to grasp as an artist. I also feel I never understood how important composer Ligeti is. So, I have been confused. Ligeti's music intimidates and fascinates me in a way I don't think I have ever experienced but there is also something hindering the experiment. Maybe Ligeti lived 100 years too early and should have born in 2023 to create a sophisticated style of computer music? I find Ligeti's art very "computer-like".

I can definitely see what you mean about the "computer-like" quality of his work. I get this a lot from the Piano Concerto, which is one of my favorite pieces he wrote (along with Clocks and Clouds and San Francisco Polyphony, if you are looking for suggestions... 0:)).