Sibelius Symphonies

[Steve]

Is there a bad Sibelius cycle on the market? I have 5 sets and they are uniformly excellent: Davis/BSO, Segerstam/DNRSO, Sanderling, Berglund, and Barbirolli.

I haven't heard one! Might I suggest as a 6th, Blomstedt and San Francisco?

[Mark]

I've got four sets:

Bernstein/NYP - Lovely overall, but I'm no fan of Lenny (even though his Symphony No. 2 is magnificent). He totally screws the Third Symphony for me, making it plodding and shapeless in the central movement in particular.

Davis/LSO (LSO Live set) - Outstanding sonics, and some really quite thrilling performances.

Sanderling/Berlin Symphony Orchestra - Not finished listening to this, but the Second Symphony blew me away!

Sakari/Iceland Symphony Orchestra - I really, really like this cycle, especially for its Sixth and Seventh Symphonies.


What are the general feelings here about the Blomstedt cycle?

[Sergeant Rock]

the general feelings here about the Blomstedt cycle?

Generally very positive. He seems to please the majority. There are a few dissenters, though, who vastly prefer Bernstein, Maazel, Davis, Ashkenazy, Karajan, Segerstam, Berglund, Gibson, Vänskä, Sanderling, Järvi, Rattle...well, almost anyone else

Sarge

[jochanaan]

I don't listen to Sibelius often but last night I did (symphonies 6 & 7, ISO/Petri Sakari/Naxos).

I was in a forgiving mood and Sibelius' mannerisms didn't bother too much. Again I wondered about certain "clumsiness." Sibelius has a strange habid of stopping all sounds at the same time suddenly without any rational reason. It sounds like he got bored of what he was doing with the sounds, stopped it and started doing something else. There is not much overlapping of themes and ideas. This makes Sibelius extremely easy to listen to. No wonder I liked his music before I really got into classical music. His use of percussion instruments is silly. I'd say this is due to lack of orchestration skills. Also, I have always wondered why Sibelius used so much pizzicato. One thing I have to wine about too is unhealthy "spectrum of events" and poor rhythmic structure. Otherwine Sibelius' music is enjoyable. In fact, the 7th symphony has even a bit Elgarian noble mood!

What you see as "clumsiness" and "lack of orchestration skills," I and many others see as boldness and individuality.  His sudden silences are as dramatic as anything in music.  No, he's not for those who want consistent smoothness; but those who enjoy uniqueness find Sibelius highly gratifying.

I've got most of the Davis/BSO set, plus Paavo Berglund's Fourth with the Bournemouth Symphony (not Sinfonietta ) and Ashkenazy's 3rd and 6th with the Philharmonia.  Sibelius, like Bruckner, seems to respond best to those musicians who play up his rugged individualism.

[PerfectWagnerite]

I haven't heard one! Might I suggest as a 6th, Blomstedt and San Francisco?

I was thinking about the Vanska set as part of the 15(?) CD Essential Sibelius Edition
Blomstedt? WHen the price drops below $10 I'll buy it

[Greta]

I also have the Davis/LSO and they are very solid performances, a good introduction I think but I am also in the market for more. From what I've read I think Blomstedt and Segerstam I might be interested in, and if I remember right from a discussion on the old forum, Ashkenazy as he's rather romantic.

Coincidentally I recently ran across a Sibelius cycle + Kullervo captured from a TV broadcast, with Salonen conducting the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra, I think it's c. 2000 or late 90s. Really very good performances with lovely staging, and a lot of emotion and intensity. I haven't made it through the whole set yet but the 5th is a standout.

It's great to see video of these symphonies performed, it helps me understand and appreciate these works even more. Sound quality isn't great though. I SO wish these would be released on DVD, especially since he never recorded a cycle!

Steve, for the 5th (Philmarmonia) his is a solid recommendation, a warm, glowing, beautifully played account and includes a wonderfully brooding Pohjola's Daughter.

The 6th is still the most difficult for me. The movements never end where I expect them to, and the ending, what to make of it? But it's quite ahead of its time, especially the inner mvmts are just fascinating. And I LOVE the last mvmt, with its driving theme, and the hymn-like section reminds me a bit of Finlandia.

[71 dB]

What you see as "clumsiness" and "lack of orchestration skills," I and many others see as boldness and individuality.  His sudden silences are as dramatic as anything in music.  No, he's not for those who want consistent smoothness; but those who enjoy uniqueness find Sibelius highly gratifying.

Well, I suppose that's the case since so many love Sibelius' music. Similarly I can say what some see as "turgid" or "overblown" in Elgar, I (and other Elgarians I suppose) see as divine control of very complex musical structures, ideas and strong thematic material.

[Hector]

Is there a bad Sibelius cycle on the market? I have 5 sets and they are uniformly excellent: Davis/BSO, Segerstam/DNRSO, Sanderling, Berglund, and Barbirolli.

Of course there are: Ashkenazy, Segerstam in Helsinki, Davis with the LSO on RCA.

Avoid!

[karlhenning]

Similarly I can say what some see as "turgid" or "overblown" in Elgar, I (and other Elgarians I suppose) see as divine control of very complex musical structures, ideas and strong thematic material.

We don't care.  This thread is about Sibelius.  Repeat:  This thread is about Sibelius.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Of course there are: Ashkenazy, Segerstam in Helsinki, Davis with the LSO on RCA.

Avoid!

Don't a lot of people regard the Helsinki cycle as superior to the DNRSO cycle? I haven't heard the Helsinki cycle but the DNRSO cycle can be criticized for being a bit on the overblown and overripe side. Someone who likes their Sibelius with a little less fat would probably not take to the DNRSO cycle very well.

[M forever]

What you see as "clumsiness" and "lack of orchestration skills," I and many others see as boldness and individuality.  His sudden silences are as dramatic as anything in music.

Indeed. There are few, very few composers whose music is so concise, to the point, essential, and concentrated as Sibelius'. And few if any said as much in the silences between the notes as he did. It is not too difficult to put together a lot of notes which somehow sound nice and make sense. But it is extremely difficult to reduce the notes to the bare minimum, and to know when to be silent when there is nothing to be said.

And, as we can see, knowing when to be silent is a virtue and skill our friend "Elgar" has never understood nor even started to develop to understand in the months of my absence. This easily explains why he doesn't "get" Sibelius. 

[The new erato]

Indeed. There are few, very few composers whose music is so concise, to the point, essential, and concentrated as Sibelius'. And few if any said as much in the silences between the notes as he did. It is not too difficult to put together a lot of notes which somehow sound nice and make sense. But it is extremely difficult to reduce the notes to the bare minimum, and to know when to be silent when there is nothing to be said.

Seconded, and well said. One of the top 5 or 6 symphonists IMO. A superb original and dramatic voice with a masterful control of the orchestra, and a master of orchestration.

[Mark]

Indeed. There are few, very few composers whose music is so concise, to the point, essential, and concentrated as Sibelius'. And few if any said as much in the silences between the notes as he did. It is not too difficult to put together a lot of notes which somehow sound nice and make sense. But it is extremely difficult to reduce the notes to the bare minimum, and to know when to be silent when there is nothing to be said.

Agreed.

[val]

Regarding individual performances, I strongly suggest Kletzki in the First and 3rd Symphonies (Philharmonia), Karajan in the 4th and 6th (BPO), Beecham in the 2nd and 7th (RPO).

Davis with Boston is very good in the 5th.

The set of Bernstein with New York has perhaps the best 3rd and 7th Symphonies I ever heard.

[M forever]

I don't have much to add to what has been said above about the virtues of all the many available Sibelius sets. We have been over this many, many times in the old forum. The sheer fact that a lot of Sibelius listeners tend to collect a high number of individual recordings and sets, similar to those who collect Beethoven, Bruckner, or Mahler symphonies, points to the extreme inner complexity and elusiveness of the music. It is extremely difficult to get "right". And so it is really hard to make single recommendations.

At this point, I would just like to add that I find the Davis recordings rather nice but among the less "essential" ones. The same applies to the Segerstam recordings, both sets. Segerstam is very good at making everything sound nice, plush, he gives the music his patented big bear hug, but doesn't explore its inner structures and smoothes off all the outer features.

Two rather contrasting but in every respect excellent sets are the ones from Maazel/WP and Blomstedt/SFS. Both on Decca, both in very good sound (Maazel's 60s stereo sound has aged very well and the recordings are still highly listenable from a sonic point of view), Maazel generally very dark and edgy, fierce and intense, Blomstedt much lighter but very much to the point, very detailed and structured. The sound worlds captured in both sets are rather far apart, but they both reveal important aspects of Sibelius' unparalleled musical imagination.

[Iago]

My favorite Sibelius #2 is the one from Monteux and the LSO. But HvK, conducting the Philhamonia Orchestra, runs it  a very close second. The disc also contains the Symphony #5. Still available on EMI. Extremely beautiful and passionate playing from the orchestra, and a relaxed, totally non-teutonic Karajan at the helm.
The recording is almost 60 yrs old, but sounds as good as if it was recorded with the most modern techniques and equipment.
As for complete sets, any that I've heard all leave something to be desired.

[Sergeant Rock]

The 6th is still the most difficult for me. The movements never end where I expect them to, and the ending, what to make of it?

It's that sense of mystery and unease, and the unexpected, that make the 6th so compelling. I've been listening to it for 40 years and it never ceases to amaze, and delight. And no, I still don't get it

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Since Steve has already bought all the Sibelius he'll need for awhile, I'll post my recommendations without elaboration...just to have it on the record.

1 - Maazel/WP

2- Bernstein/WP

3 - Ashkenazy/Philharmonia

4 - Maazel/WP

5 - Berglund/Bournemouth (if OOP, substitute Rattle/CBSO)

6 - Davis/Boston

7 - Bernstein/WP

Kullervo - Davis/LSO

Sarge

[rubio]

Has anybody here heard the below Sibelius recordings by Mravinsky and care to comment on them?

 

[Bogey]

To go along with my Segerstam cycle, I am also considering the Maazel/Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra.....has anyone else enjoyed any from this cycle?