Five great performances of Tchaikovsky's 'Pathetique' Symphony

[vandermolen]

Kondrashin / Moscow PO (Altus, live '67)

Kondrashin's became my favourite after being introduced to it by Tony "Sidoze"...any old timers remember Sidoze?  Heartbreaking finale, superbly played throughout.  Just edged out Mravinsky and Jansons as my personal favourite.

Ok, the Pletnev is very good but a tad too fast in the March (III), had many an argument over this, but I love it 

Karajan has thinner sound from EMI in 1971, I have the reissue in the mid 80's, which is still a great performance.

So many more to discover, after reading this thread.  I probably have around 15+ copies or so and a few bootlegs here n there.

Mravinsky / Leningrad (DG with 4 & 5)
Jansons / Oslo PO (Chandos)
Pletnev / Russian NO (Virgin Twofer)
Karajan / BPO (EMI) 1971

I remember Sidoze well - another loss to this forum. The Kondrashin sounds interesting. I like his Shostakovich recordings and his Miaskovsky Symphony 6 on Russian Disc is the best recorded performance of that great work.

[vandermolen]

Does Koussevitsky conduct the BSO in that one?

Boston SO - yes. Very historic recording (1930s I think) but the lowering darkness at the end is unforgettable:

[Drasko]

The Stupka, does however exist it is on a wonderful Supraphon CD coupled with an excellent performance of Novak's tone poem 'In the Tatras' (which was my original reason for buying the CD) and Dvorak's 'Carnival Overture'. The performance of the Tchaikovsky dates from 1949. The number is SU 1909 - 2 001:
[asin]B000003589[/asin]
The CD is now ridiculously priced but you can get a download.
Frantisek Stupka (1879-1965). He was still conducting in 1965. He conducted 1,400 concerts featuring the work of 300 composers but he did not leave many recordings which, on the strength of the above disc, is a great pity. He was initially apprenticed as a blacksmith. He was rather in the shadow of Vaclav Talich.

There have been quite a few fine Czech mid-century conductors that were more or less stuck in the shadow of Talich, Ancerl and Kubelik: Otakar Jeremias, Bretislav Bakala, Karel Sejna, Martin Turnovsky, this Frantisek Stupka ...

I'll check Stupka out. Lossles download can be had for about 3 euros from Supraphon online:

http://www.supraphonline.cz/album/1360-dvorak-novak-cajkovskij-karneval-v-tatrach-symfonie-c-6/flac

they have also some rare Bakala Janacek recordings and Sejna's Martinu for what seems like pretty moderate prices, if I can navigate registration in Czech ...

And speaking of Talich I should re-visit his Pathetique, which I have and haven't heard in years. 

[Karl Henning]

The Kool-Ade passed me by, and I just don't hear any such supremacy in the Kondrashin recordings.

The 1964 Lenny/NY Phil Pathétique is very fine.  I shall even say that it easily belongs in this thread, since the title is Five great rather than The Five Greatest.

[AnthonyAthletic]

The Kool-Ade passed me by, and I just don't hear any such supremacy in the Kondrashin recordings.

The 1964 Lenny/NY Phil Pathétique is very fine.  I shall even say that it easily belongs in this thread, since the title is Five great rather than The Five Greatest.

I guess my judgement of five great ones came about from the 15 to 20 recordings I have, which is probably about a tenth of all the recordings available in the catalogue.    There's lots more on offer which could easily bump my 5 great ones into a top 10 list.

[Karl Henning]

I guess my judgement of five great ones came about from the 15 to 20 recordings I have, which is probably about a tenth of all the recordings available in the catalogue.    There's lots more on offer which could easily bump my 5 great ones into a top 10 list.

Certainly a tangential q., but is there any of the 15 to 20 you have, which you don't think so well of, and why?

[vandermolen]

There have been quite a few fine Czech mid-century conductors that were more or less stuck in the shadow of Talich, Ancerl and Kubelik: Otakar Jeremias, Bretislav Bakala, Karel Sejna, Martin Turnovsky, this Frantisek Stupka ...

I'll check Stupka out. Lossles download can be had for about 3 euros from Supraphon online:

http://www.supraphonline.cz/album/1360-dvorak-novak-cajkovskij-karneval-v-tatrach-symfonie-c-6/flac

they have also some rare Bakala Janacek recordings and Sejna's Martinu for what seems like pretty moderate prices, if I can navigate registration in Czech ...

And speaking of Talich I should re-visit his Pathetique, which I have and haven't heard in years.

Thanks. I think that the Stupka disc is a great programme as I like all three works. Turnovsky's Martinu Symphony 4 is unrivalled in my view. The LP was a great discovery in my youth.

[AnthonyAthletic]

Certainly a tangential q., but is there any of the 15 to 20 you have, which you don't think so well of, and why?

Not really, well I wouldn't say I've heard a bad performance of the work.  Celibidache's niche market comes close, due to the Celibidachiness clocking in at just under 1 hour.  I mean, 1 hour!!...the music is still there albeit prolonged, but I don't know how any Conductor could do this as an interpretation.  I ask, where does an extra 15 minutes come from?  Doesn't the orchestra remember how they once played it at 42 minutes?

Oh, its Celibidache....and its acceptable, perhaps.

[Karl Henning]

Not really, well I wouldn't say I've heard a bad performance of the work.  Celibidache's niche market comes close, due to the Celibidachiness clocking in at just under 1 hour.  I mean, 1 hour!!...the music is still there albeit prolonged, but I don't know how any Conductor could do this as an interpretation.  I ask, where does an extra 15 minutes come from?  Doesn't the orchestra remember how they once played it at 42 minutes?

Oh, its Celibidache....and its acceptable, perhaps.

Thanks!  I don't recall hearing any Pathétique I did not like, either.  (And I have a passel of Shostakovich Fourths, but I cannot think of more than two with which I have probably-fatal quarrels.)

[AnthonyAthletic]

Thanks!  I don't recall hearing any Pathétique I did not like, either.  (And I have a passel of Shostakovich Fourths, but I cannot think of more than two with which I have probably-fatal quarrels.)

I have a whole bunch of Shostakovich 13ths, all for the glorious Bass vocal.  After watching a programme on TV where Pappano showed us singers of the past and present (Sop, Mez, Ten, Bass/Bar) well I was shown or rather heard Basso Profundo voice of Yuri Wichniakov (IIRC), what low notes and thought....how is this possible?  IIRC, he went on to say there are only one or two of us left and this is one in a billion voice.  Crops up every donkey's year, when the moon is blue.  I'd love a Babi Yar...deeper than the norm 

[Karl Henning]

I have a whole bunch of Shostakovich 13ths, all for the glorious Bass vocal.  After watching a programme on TV where Pappano showed us singers of the past and present (Sop, Mez, Ten, Bass/Bar) well I was shown or rather heard Basso Profundo voice of Yuri Wichniakov (IIRC), what low notes and thought....how is this possible?  IIRC, he went on to say there are only one or two of us left and this is one in a billion voice.  Crops up every donkey's year, when the moon is blue.  I'd love a Babi Yar...deeper than the norm 

There's a musical obsession I can endorse! 

[vandermolen]

Just listened to the Stupka 'Pathetique' again. Whereas with the Koussevitsky the symphony ends in glowering darkness and looming tragedy, the Stupka conveys a sense of profound sadness which I find very affecting. Both are marvellous historic performances. Thanks for all the replies by the way.

[vandermolen]

Does Koussevitsky conduct the BSO in that one?

OT

Karl, I'm going to hear the Boston SO at the Proms in London on Sunday performing Barber's Essay No.2, one of my favourite scores and Shostakovich's 10th Symphony. Really looking forward to this.

[Karl Henning]

OT

Karl, I'm going to hear the Boston SO at the Proms in London on Sunday performing Barber's Essay No.2, one of my favourite scores and Shostakovich's 10th Symphony. Really looking forward to this.

Do report!

[Daverz]

Giulini/Philharmonia was my introduction to the work, and I think it still holds up very well, even if EMI never remastered their ancient digital transfer (there was a "24 bit" Toshiba EMI CD).

[TheGSMoeller]

1. Lenny/NYP/DG - 1987
2.
3.
4.
5.

I've never heard another performance as devastatingly beautiful than Bernstein's from the 80s. It's almost unfair but every other I've listened to I instantly compare to this one, it's sheer power has never been equaled to my ears. The heavily relaxed tempos play a major factor in my attraction, and the NYP's dark tone, especially from the brass, is perfect.

[Scion7]

Mine. 1977 in Royce Hall, U.C.L.A.




Also have Muti/Philharmonia, but I don't play it as much.

(oh, a little over 4,000 at last count, if you were wondering ...   )

[jochanaan]

Does anybody know if Efrem Kurtz ever recorded the Pathetique?  I was blessed to hear him do it live with the Kansas City Philharmonic in the late 1970s--a flawless, passionate performance.

[Mirror Image]

There are two Pathetique performances that stand out as masterful to me: Bernstein on DG and Gergiev on Philips. If I'm in the mood to hear this work, these are the performances I return to most often.