Topic: /|\ Ralph's Compositions /|\

[rappy]

Let's induct the Composer forum with a brand-new atonal piano composition:
"Atonales Klavierstück" it's called, in a simple A - B - A' form, the A part being quick (Allegrissimo) and bouncy and the B part slow, free (rubato) and expressive.

MP3:

http://www.dgsp-rheinland-pfalz.de/atonalesklavierstueck.mp3

Score:
http://www.dgsp-rheinland-pfalz.de/atonalesklavierstueck.pdf

I've edited the thread title. This thread will contain all of my newer compositions.

Here's the beginning of my violin concerto:

http://www.dgsp-rheinland-pfalz.de/violinkonzert.mp3 (audio)
http://www.dgsp-rheinland-pfalz.de/violinkonzert.pdf (score)

And here's my trombone sonata, which is now finished (lasts 12 1/2 minutes without cadenza).

http://www.dgsp-rheinland-pfalz.de/sonateposaune.mp3 (audio)
http://www.dgsp-rheinland-pfalz.de/sonateposaune.pdf (score)

Enjoy - I'm thankful for any sort of comments and criticism!

[Mark G. Simon]

A very enjoyable piece, and a very difficult one by the sound of it. If that's a MIDI performance, it's very convincing. If it's a live performance, congratulations.

I was reminded of the Shostakovich Polka from the Age of Gold, with some Prokofiev and Bartok thrown in. I think the title is a misnomer, since I heard a lot of C major in there. I might have given it the title "Polytonal Polka", because usually what's happening is that 2 keys are being juxtaposed.

[rappy]

Thanks for your comment. It's a Finale 2007 performance - I could not play it, it's a real virtuoso piece. But it should be playable.

It's quite difficult to write a real atonal piece, I think. If there's somewhere a C, an E and a G in a measure, maybe the C in the bass, a listener will immediately recognize it as C major. So you have to avoid constellations like that on purpose. I didn't do that... I did just write in a very free, but not ideological way.

[Mark G. Simon]

I did just write in a very free, but not ideological way.

Which is a perfectly honorable way to proceed.

[lukeottevanger]

That's a really fine piece, Rappy, with some great ideas. You've really come on so far in such a short time!! Any significance to giving an atonal piece the honour of being op1 no1 ? Do you feel as if this style is where you've been heading?

[rappy]

Maybe! I want to compose a set of piano pieces in this style (op. 1).
I'm still looking for an unmistakable style so that people stop telling me not to imitate somebody else's.

Thanks

[lukeottevanger]

Maybe! I want to compose a set of piano pieces in this style (op. 1).
I'm still looking for an unmistakable style so that people stop telling me not to imitate somebody else's.

It'll come, in time. Might be a long time, though. I don't think it's something you can actively bring about ('I'll take a pinch of this and a dash of that and add a splash of that....') but you can try to encourage a state of mind which brings out your own latent tendencies and strips away those that aren't as natural to you. I don't think you were imitating someone else specifically, in your earlier pieces, and I don't think in this one you are imitating the Shostakovich piece Mark mentioned - but there are certainly some similarities, which is fine, of course. The real question is - and I can't know the answer to this - are these similarities half-digested versions of other things you've heard; or are they fully-assimilated and part of your own voice; or were they natural to you all along? As I've said on my own thread, if a composer has something pressing to say I think it is important that they are able to say it in the most honest (to themselves) way possible. This means knowing what in their music 'comes' from where, and why, and knowing the implications that this carries; knowing whether it is necessary to their own style or just a surface mannerism; stripping away all that is inessential; and integrating all aspects of your music so that their are no internal clashes .

None of this is a comment on your piece, btw. It is more an account of the process I have been following, and which I feel is a pretty natural process for composers to go through - reading personal accounts of other composers' own developments this thinning-out, stripping-down and integrating often turns out to be a pretty striking recurring feature. It's visible in the better and later pieces of many great composers, and I find this general approach to composing much more useful to copy than the specifics of their styles!

[Joe_Campbell]

I liked your piece rappy...although I'm curious as to what made you decide to write an 'atonal piece,' based on your previous two compositions that I know of.

By the way, you might appreciate this...I was reminded of it while listening to your music (not that they sound a whole lot similar). To me, this piece seems unplayable, but by gosh cziffra plays it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4EtGBekr8g

[Mark G. Simon]

Maybe! I want to compose a set of piano pieces in this style (op. 1).
I'm still looking for an unmistakable style so that people stop telling me not to imitate somebody else's.

Thanks

People will always tell you you're imitating somebody else. When you listen to a composer you've never heard before, the first thing you're going to do is try to relate it to some music you know. That helps you orient yourself to what the composer is doing, and how to listen to the music.

For instance, I heard Shostakovich, Bartok and Prokofiev in your piano piece. I certainly wouldn't fault you for that. These are 3 composers I really like, and I wouldn't want you to rid yourself of those influences.

There's a difference between influence and imitation, in any case. Avoid imitation, but don't be afraid to be influenced by the music you love. Don't be discouraged when people tell you your music sounds like composer x or y. A composer with no influences probably doesn't know very much about music.

[lukeottevanger]

There's a difference between influence and imitation, in any case.

Tha't s very true. My point is always that one needs to be conscious of one's influences, to think on them, weigh them up and absorb them, because if that doesn't happen, they might as well just be imitation. None of this is a comment on Rappy's piece, just general discussion.

[Mark G. Simon]

Tha't s very true. My point is always that one needs to be conscious of one's influences, to think on them, weigh them up and absorb them, because if that doesn't happen, they might as well just be imitation. None of this is a comment on Rappy's piece, just general discussion.

I had no intention of countering anything you said, and wouldn't dream of arguing with you on this point.

I think anyone who wants to compose should listen to as much music as possible, study as many scores as possible, absorb as much as possible from the music that's already out there, and write as much as possible. Hopefully, this knowledge and experience will put the composer in a position to synthesize his own personal style.

I don't think this conflicts with anything you've said, Luke, does it?

[lukeottevanger]

On, no, I never thought it did - sorry if I suggested that. I was just latching on to your useful imitation/influence distinction to help clarify what I'd meant earlier.

[rappy]

I think anyone who wants to compose should listen to as much music as possible, study as many scores as possible, absorb as much as possible from the music that's already out there, and write as much as possible. Hopefully, this knowledge and experience will put the composer in a position to synthesize his own personal style.

This is what I try to do (of course time is a limit, always).
Of course influence is not a bad thing. All famous composers got influenced - Beethoven by Haydn, Brahms by Beethoven and Schumann etc.
They did never simply copy a style, though. But I also don't think that I do that. The trombone sonata - although in a conventional harmonic and formal language - I could not assign to any composer of the past. Nevertheless, very few serious musicians would accept it as anything different than an inferior emulation, even if it was much better, even if it was as good as e.g. let's say a Mendelssohn sonata.
Why? Because it's too ordinary. It's what a conservative listener expects. It's not different enough.
Thus if this was my (original) style, it would not be accepted. This is quite a dilemma, isn't it?