Hitler's record collection

[beclemund]

Forgive me if I am reposting old news, but I found this particular news story interesting and did not see it mentioned elsewhere:

He expelled Jewish and Russian musicians from concert halls during the Third Reich, claimed in Mein Kampf that there was no independent Jewish culture, and referred to Russians as sub-humans, yet at the same time Adolf Hitler listened to their music in secret

And here's a follow up from Gramophone

[Solitary Wanderer]

I read this book many years ago when I was a teenager:



It was a stunning biography.

Hitler was a mass of contradictions including being a vegetarian but eating kidney dumplings and also having a part Jewish cook.

Obviously that extended to his record collection as well

His favourite Wagner opera was Lohengrin.

[Justin Ignaz Franz Bieber]

Forgive me if I am reposting old news, but I found this particular news story interesting and did not see it mentioned elsewhere:

He expelled Jewish and Russian musicians from concert halls during the Third Reich, claimed in Mein Kampf that there was no independent Jewish culture, and referred to Russians as sub-humans, yet at the same time Adolf Hitler listened to their music in secret

And here's a follow up from Gramophone

I had always thought Hitler liked Wagner because he was German & wrote stuff about conquering etc. (unless I'm mistaken - I'm not a Wagner conoisseur) The story said Tchaikovsky was in the collection... Russian & gay... that should have been two strikes against him then, as far a Hitler is concerned!

[PSmith08]

I had always thought Hitler liked Wagner because he was German & wrote stuff about conquering etc. (unless I'm mistaken - I'm not a Wagner connoisseur) The story said Tchaikovsky was in the collection... Russian & gay... that should have been two strikes against him then, as far a Hitler is concerned!

It's not as simple as that. Wagner's own political beliefs (he took part in the 1848 revolutions and had to flee Saxony as a result) and his music take a dim view of the sort of behavior that Hitler found so convenient. Der Ring des Nibelungen is set in motion when someone forswears love for universal power. Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg has that final monologue and chorus, which is often found disquieting, but really says that German art will endure - even as evil politicians wreck Germany (as it existed in the Holy Roman Empire). Parsifal talks about how the holy fool must learn compassion - even for one such as Kundry - before he can redeem the holy cult of the Grail. Wagner's musical ideals (as expressed in his poems) are not remotely consonant with the comic book understanding thereof that Hitler had. The Nazis figured it out later, and banned complete shows of Parsifal.

Hitler liked Wagner, and found his anti-Semitic writings consonant with his own racism, but let us not hasten to blame Richard Wagner for someone born six years after he died.

[mahlertitan]

It's not as simple as that. Wagner's own political beliefs (he took part in the 1848 revolutions and had to flee Saxony as a result) and his music take a dim view of the sort of behavior that Hitler found so convenient. Der Ring des Nibelungen is set in motion when someone forswears love for universal power. Die Meistersinger von Nürnberg has that final monologue and chorus, which is often found disquieting, but really says that German art will endure - even as evil politicians wreck Germany (as it existed in the Holy Roman Empire). Parsifal talks about how the holy fool must learn compassion - even for one such as Kundry - before he can redeem the holy cult of the Grail. Wagner's musical ideals (as expressed in his poems) are not remotely consonant with the comic book understanding thereof that Hitler had. The Nazis figured it out later, and banned complete shows of Parsifal.

Hitler liked Wagner, and found his anti-Semitic writings consonant with his own racism, but let us not hasten to blame Richard Wagner for someone born six years after he died.

nobody blamed Richard Wagner.

[PSmith08]

nobody blamed Richard Wagner.

Sure. Fine.

"Let us not tar him with the same brush."

[Justin Ignaz Franz Bieber]

I said I didn't know much about Wagner's music... I'm not surprised that nazis got it wrong. They reinterpreted a lot of books/ideas to match their ideology. Nietzsche's superman is another thing.

[PSmith08]

I said I didn't know much about Wagner's music... I'm not surprised that nazis got it wrong. They reinterpreted a lot of books/ideas to match their ideology. Nietzsche's superman is another thing.

Uh. Friedrich Nietzsche would have gone absolutely ballistic if he thought a bunch of anti-Semitic German hyper-nationalists was reading his works. Wagner had some consonance, mostly anti-Semitism and nationalism, with the Nazis: Nietzsche had none.

[HARPER_JT]

Hitler also had an unimaginably valuable collection of Wagner manuscripts — the original scores of Die Feen, Das Liebesverbot, and Rienzi, orchestral sketches for The Flying Dutchman, clean copies of Rheingold and Walküre, a copy of the orchestral sketch for Act III of Siegfried, and a copy of the orchestral sketch for Götterdämmerung, all given to him on his fiftieth birthday.

[bwv 1080]

Does this mean we can now play the Reductio ad Hitlerum card in arguing about recordings?

"you would like Schnabel - he was Hitler's favorite"

"If you like Feodor Chaliapin you must be a closet Nazi, because Hitler liked him"

I can really see this livening up music discussions here

[mahlertitan]

Does this mean we can now play the Reductio ad Hitlerum card in arguing about recordings?

no, it doesn't

[EmpNapoleon]

Jews and Soviets must have listened to German music during that time also.

That Gramophone article ends with the author's ambivalent thoughts on German music: "Dreadful to imagine that when Adolf Hitler listened to Huberman's Tchaikovsky, he was having parallel thoughts - though sadly not as a victim." 

I don't like this Rob Cowan.

[bwv 1080]

no, it doesn't

Sounds just like the answer Hitler would give

[quintett op.57]

nobody blamed Richard Wagner.

Why is his music forbidden in Israel?

The Wagner question is not as simple as it's generally presented. I don't believe a anti-semitist can have as many jewish friends as Wagner had.

Regarding Hitler, maybe he was not such a racist. Maybe he used some people's hate cynically.
I don't think so but I'm sure a human being is capable of this.

[Justin Ignaz Franz Bieber]

Uh. Friedrich Nietzsche would have gone absolutely ballistic if he thought a bunch of anti-Semitic German hyper-nationalists was reading his works. Wagner had some consonance, mostly anti-Semitism and nationalism, with the Nazis: Nietzsche had none.

He didn't specify which race the superman would come from; he wrote that anyone could become one. & he DID go ballistic! He practically disowned his sister after she married a Nazi

[PSmith08]

He didn't specify which race the superman would come from; he wrote that anyone could become one. & he DID go ballistic! He practically disowned his sister after she married a Nazi

I'm fairly sure that Nietzsche would argue that thinking in terms of race is a sign of the herd, and that - to become the superman - you would necessarily have to stop thinking in terms of race (or any such other triviality).

[mahlertitan]

Sounds just like the answer Hitler would give

oh, btw, my favorite operetta is "die lustige witwe", does that make you happy? huh? huh?

[snyprrr]

Wagner is verboten in Israel?

[springrite]

Wagner is verboten in Israel?

No, not officially, but his music is not played there and playing it (as Barenboim did) causes "controversy" and protests.

[snyprrr]

Yes, now I think I remember that. oy.