Season's Greetings

[vandermolen]

Very enjoyable! I didn't know such videos were on YouTube.

Merry Christmas to all GMG members!

For someone who naturally associates Christmas with snow and ice, the weather in the Netherlands today is strange, to say the least. Very mild and sunny!

Same in the UK. My daughter studied for a year in Leiden which gave me the opportunity to meet up with two Dutch GMG members when I visited her. A happy experience.
Happy Christmas.

[Elgarian]

Hah! I love it! I laughed at your joke instantly as I'm quite familiar with that quote in which you misquoted. Merry Christmas to you!

Cheers! Glad to hear it raised a smile. Merry Christmas to you too - and indeed to one and all.

[Cato]

For those of you with children or grandchildren, one of the best Christmas stories in any form: A Christmas for Shacktown by Carl Barks, one of the original "duck men" hired by Walt Disney 80 years ago. Barks provided much expanded personalities for Donald Duck, Huey, Dewey, and Louis, as well as inventing the character of Scrooge McDuck.

Funny, full of surprises, touching, and just a hint of a message!   And not just for the kids!!! 

(The soundtrack is not necessary  as you will discover, although the section I heard is quaint in a certain way!)

https://www.youtube.com/v/2DhqERuJlAk

Very enjoyable! I didn't know such videos were on YouTube.

Merry Christmas to all GMG members!

Neither did  I!  Some years ago, a Frenchman who called himself "Beru" had scanned every Carl Barks story (and the ones by Don Rosa (worthy successor to Barks) and placed it online.

Disney Incorporated found out about it    , and forced him off the Internet.  Given that he was not charging a penny, I could not understand why they did not see the site as free publicity for the characters among the next generation.

So I do not know how much longer this will last on YouTube: the person behind it seems to be an Eastern European, specifically Slovenian.

Anyway, I have always admired the stories of Carl Barks and his literary descendant Don Rosa: this link shows a Don Rosa story in the context that the movie Inception stole the central idea.

https://www.youtube.com/v/vmeH_oN3ugY

[Parsifal]

Seasons greetings from Bob Dorough and Miles Davis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqZ1O0YhY5Q

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I, for one, would be very interested to read what you had to say on the subject 

To put it briefly, I celebrate pretty much only the pre-Christian aspects of it before the diverse pagan traditions were claimed the church with the intent of gaining new followers.

[aligreto]

To put it briefly, I celebrate pretty much only the pre-Christian aspects of it before the diverse pagan traditions were claimed the church with the intent of gaining new followers.

That, for me, would make for an interesting read 

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

That, for me, would make for an interesting read 

Well basically it is pretty normal stuff...considering I do not belong to any religion I make an effort to understand the historical aspects of religious festivals and how they changed over time, and also how authoritarian Christian rule incorporated various traditional festivals into their rather fascinating albeit contradictory dogma. The popularity of the ancient Roman Saturnalia, for example, was taken in by the new Christian rule, but it took quite a long time for Christmas to catch on as a tradition because honouring birthdays (such as the birth of the sun as was believed to be 25 December) was not really what Christianity focussed on as much as honouring the death of important people. Koleda I find interesting as well, both because of my macedonian heritage on my mother's side and how it influenced the modern caroling aspect of Christmas today.

So the way I celebrate Christmas is generally through listening to and singing music, giving gifts/donations, indulging in lots of food (pagan midwinter festivals), decorating trees (more pagan roots there) and I generally just like to have a good time.

[zamyrabyrd]

...I make an effort to understand the historical aspects of religious festivals and how they changed over time, and also how authoritarian Christian rule incorporated various traditional festivals into their rather fascinating albeit contradictory dogma. The popularity of the ancient Roman Saturnalia, for example, was taken in by the new Christian rule, but it took quite a long time for Christmas to catch on as a tradition because honouring birthdays (such as the birth of the sun as was believed to be 25 December) was not really what Christianity focused on as much as honouring the death of important people. Koleda I find interesting as well, both because of my macedonian heritage on my mother's side and how it influenced the modern caroling aspect of Christmas today.

Coming from an Italian family, many, if not most, of my relatives had their collections of holy statues. Only after learning a little history, was it clear to me that these were handed down from the Lares and Penates of the Ancient Romans. I don't think authoritarianism had anything to do with incorporating popular culture that stayed marginal anyway and couldn't pretend to be fundamental, like Christmas trees coming from Germanic traditions. In other words, the common folk could have their statues if they wanted and if they didn't interfere with worship. In fact, having them around helps to be reminded, so a win-win situation.

ZB

[Cato]

So the way I celebrate Christmas is generally through listening to and singing music, giving gifts/donations, indulging in lots of food (pagan midwinter festivals), decorating trees (more pagan roots there) and I generally just like to have a good time.

You might be interested in knowing that the word "pagan" actually comes from a Latin word meaning "country bumpkin."  Because Christianity was for several centuries basically an urban religion, and because a majority of the population still lived in the countryside and not in the cities in Roman times, the term came to mean "non-Christian" since this rural majority remained unconverted into the Middle Ages. 

The mass conversions of barbarian tribes which one often reads about undoubtedly meant that Christianity was added to the group's pagan beliefs, and did not necessarily replace them.  Outside of the educated urban minority, how much many early Christians really understood about their religion is obscure.

[aligreto]

Interesting Guys and thank you for that. I am not a religious person but I do lament what Christmas has become. I need to do some reading with a view to further educating myself in the historical aspects of religious festivals; the Druids had a strong influence here in Ireland so I must research that some more as well.

[Camphy]

Neither did  I!  Some years ago, a Frenchman who called himself "Beru" had scanned every Carl Barks story (and the ones by Don Rosa (worthy successor to Barks) and placed it online.

Disney Incorporated found out about it    , and forced him off the Internet.  Given that he was not charging a penny, I could not understand why they did not see the site as free publicity for the characters among the next generation.

So I do not know how much longer this will last on YouTube: the person behind it seems to be an Eastern European, specifically Slovenian.

Anyway, I have always admired the stories of Carl Barks and his literary descendant Don Rosa: this link shows a Don Rosa story in the context that the movie Inception stole the central idea.

Thanks! I certainly share your admiration for Barks and Don Rosa. The 'Inception' story is great. Haven't seen the Nolan film though.

[Florestan]

Coming from an Italian family, many, if not most, of my relatives had their collections of holy statues. Only after learning a little history, was it clear to me that these were handed down from the Lares and Penates of the Ancient Romans. I don't think authoritarianism had anything to do with incorporating popular culture that stayed marginal anyway and couldn't pretend to be fundamental, like Christmas trees coming from Germanic traditions. In other words, the common folk could have their statues if they wanted and if they didn't interfere with worship. In fact, having them around helps to be reminded, so a win-win situation.

ZB

Agreed.

Besides, if the Church´s incorporating and Christianizing some pagan celebrations and festivals is authoritarian, then had the Church actually suppressed them for good it would have been equally, if not more, authoritarian. Damned if you do, damned if you don´t. 

[Karl Henning]

Merry Christmas to one and all!  Peace, love, and hot tea!

[vandermolen]

Merry Christmas to one and all!  Peace, love, and hot tea!

To you too Karl and Happy New Year.

[jochanaan]

Perhaps it's thyme for some Seasoned Greetings. May Virgin Rosemary-- no, that's no good.  May the Spice be with you, complete with frankincense. Is there myrrh to come? 

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Coming from an Italian family, many, if not most, of my relatives had their collections of holy statues. Only after learning a little history, was it clear to me that these were handed down from the Lares and Penates of the Ancient Romans. I don't think authoritarianism had anything to do with incorporating popular culture that stayed marginal anyway and couldn't pretend to be fundamental, like Christmas trees coming from Germanic traditions. In other words, the common folk could have their statues if they wanted and if they didn't interfere with worship. In fact, having them around helps to be reminded, so a win-win situation.

ZB

Oh this is interesting! Thanks for the post, always looking to learn about new things.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

You might be interested in knowing that the word "pagan" actually comes from a Latin word meaning "country bumpkin."  Because Christianity was for several centuries basically an urban religion, and because a majority of the population still lived in the countryside and not in the cities in Roman times, the term came to mean "non-Christian" since this rural majority remained unconverted into the Middle Ages. 

The mass conversions of barbarian tribes which one often reads about undoubtedly meant that Christianity was added to the group's pagan beliefs, and did not necessarily replace them.  Outside of the educated urban minority, how much many early Christians really understood about their religion is obscure.

Yes this is all true, and even in the later stages of the Roman Empire when the Christianity became more dominant, paganism was something which they embraced rather than oppressed...well they did manipulate things to fit with their belief system.