Author Topic: David Hurwitz  (Read 18212 times)

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Offline Daverz

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #400 on: October 16, 2020, 05:39:42 PM »
Thank you.
Seriously, this is the type of post that the thread should be all about - and that clown’s youtube page should have zero traffic coming from here. As it is, it feels more like a sickly vortex of obsession with an insufferable wannabe classical music Kardashian - where the medium and the narcissistic image becomes more important than the message (the obvious reason why, as mentioned above, a list of recordings is not included in each video’s description).
Isn’t there a feature in the forum’s software to be able to exclude selected threads such as this from the “new posts” page?  :D

Dude, why do you think I went to the trouble of posting these on pastebin when I could have more easily posted them in directly?   

Offline Wanderer

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #401 on: October 17, 2020, 02:27:43 AM »
Aren't you a bit too harsh, Tasos?

Not really.  :)
And I was not referring to his opinions about music.

There's also the thing that these youtubes run up to 25 minutes if I recall. Compared to reading a Classics Today review in a couple minutes, that's just a massive waste of time, which you'll never get back, especially if it's just watching a guy laugh at his own jokes.

Exactly. A list of the recordings mentioned in each video would make this thread actually useful. Oherwise, it could just as well be in The Diner (the sorry little table by the toilet door).

It takes nothing away from your point, to appreciate the oxymoron "spectacularly dim" 8)

Thank you. Choice of words was not accidental.  ;)


Dude, why do you think I went to the trouble of posting these on pastebin when I could have more easily posted them in directly?   

I don’t know, but I thank you for valiantly wasting your time so that others wouldn’t have to.  :D


Offline Jo498

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #402 on: October 17, 2020, 02:59:24 AM »
If you think DH is basically a clown why should one be interested in his recommendations?
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #403 on: October 17, 2020, 03:23:17 AM »
One observation I would make that would apply to any such comparative reviews in any media;  I simply don't know how he finds the time to do an in-depth comparison!  If you are listening to an hour long work (for example RVW Sea Symphony) I would say to make valid judgments EACH performance would have to be listened to afresh at least twice and notes about each performance taken.  Then and only then with each version resonating anew in your head you can make reasonable comparisons from your own point of view.

Clearly DH cannot devote that amount of time to this alone - he has a website to run, new repertoire/discs to review etc etc.  Therefore his comments must be based on memories/perception of a performance from possibly years back and/or "dipping in" to versions at various key moments to give a compare/contrast reading of those moments.  This is in part why timings must then be given undue significance - its an easy way to call a version "slow"/"rushed".  Of course, none of the above means that conclusions reached will be "wrong" - especially since in the midst of his sweeping generalisations there are grains of truth and insight.  However, they have to be just that - sweeping generalisations.  So as ever, it is "listener/watcher/buyer beware" (if I knew Latin I'd write the equivalent!)

Offline Jo498

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #404 on: October 17, 2020, 03:47:46 AM »
Caveat emptor (buyer) is the classic phrase, I think. Cave hominem unius disci. Or maybe sometimes also the man with too many musical discs. I'd grant Hurwitz that with some music he has a huge experience that even statements from memory or brief refreshings of memory are not without value. Strauss tone poems or Sibelius symphonies might be pieces where this is true. But I doubt that this is the case with Mozart PC and the constraint to never repeat performers makes such a list more dubious. As does the fact that he is referring to the pieces by number, not Köchel number. ;)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline (poco) Sforzando

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #405 on: October 17, 2020, 05:38:52 AM »
One observation I would make that would apply to any such comparative reviews in any media;  I simply don't know how he finds the time to do an in-depth comparison!  If you are listening to an hour long work (for example RVW Sea Symphony) I would say to make valid judgments EACH performance would have to be listened to afresh at least twice and notes about each performance taken.  Then and only then with each version resonating anew in your head you can make reasonable comparisons from your own point of view.

Clearly DH cannot devote that amount of time to this alone - he has a website to run, new repertoire/discs to review etc etc.  Therefore his comments must be based on memories/perception of a performance from possibly years back and/or "dipping in" to versions at various key moments to give a compare/contrast reading of those moments.  This is in part why timings must then be given undue significance - its an easy way to call a version "slow"/"rushed".  Of course, none of the above means that conclusions reached will be "wrong" - especially since in the midst of his sweeping generalisations there are grains of truth and insight.  However, they have to be just that - sweeping generalisations.  So as ever, it is "listener/watcher/buyer beware" (if I knew Latin I'd write the equivalent!)

I find it hard to believe he listens in depth to all the recordings especially boxed sets he recommends. Yesterday we had the 12 greatest boxed sets in existence, today it's 6 fabulous conductor boxes. Of his 12 boxed sets, I have two (Stravinsky and Haydn symphonies), and it took months to go through each. Does the man just listen 10 hours a day? Does he have time to eat and sleep?
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Offline André

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #406 on: October 17, 2020, 05:59:14 AM »
Caveat emptor (buyer) is the classic phrase, I think. Cave hominem unius disci. Or maybe sometimes also the man with too many musical discs. I'd grant Hurwitz that with some music he has a huge experience that even statements from memory or brief refreshings of memory are not without value. Strauss tone poems or Sibelius symphonies might be pieces where this is true. But I doubt that this is the case with Mozart PC and the constraint to never repeat performers makes such a list more dubious. As does the fact that he is referring to the pieces by number, not Köchel number. ;)

In all the years I’ve read music periodicals I’ve rarely seen K or D numbers used in american publications. Must be a question of habit, or a choice between different possibilities.

For me, identifying Schubert’s sonata D 850 by its D number is more practical than by its tonality (in D). No confusion possible. When it comes to Bach, though, I rarely use BWV numbers. Trio sonata no 5, not BWV 529 for me, please.

Offline Jo498

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #407 on: October 17, 2020, 08:27:37 AM »
It's pure habit but in many cases I have to think a few seconds or even count backwards to identify the piece if only the genre number is mentioned without the key. Because the Mozart piano concerti numbering is awkward, the first real concerto has #5 and the 2 and  3 piano concerti are not counted separately, I much prefer the K numbers here. Similarly the Schubert sonatas are a mess because of the many fragments, so I'd prefer D (although I don't know the numbers well before D 664).
OTOH if someone referred to Beethoven's or Brahms' symphonies mainly by opus number it would seem a bit mannered (Not for string quartets, trios or piano sonatas, in all of which I prefer opus numbers.)
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I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Madiel

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #408 on: October 17, 2020, 03:06:20 PM »
I find it hard to believe he listens in depth to all the recordings especially boxed sets he recommends. Yesterday we had the 12 greatest boxed sets in existence, today it's 6 fabulous conductor boxes. Of his 12 boxed sets, I have two (Stravinsky and Haydn symphonies), and it took months to go through each. Does the man just listen 10 hours a day? Does he have time to eat and sleep?

I would have thought it blindingly obvious that he hasn't listened to all of the material between, say, that video and the previous video.

But I would also find it very weird to make any assumption that that is what he's remotely claiming in these comparisons. It's completely different to when a single new release album is reviewed.

We're frequently talking about performances that are DECADES old. Hell, the classical music industry is perfectly happily to regurgitate and re-release recordings that are older than I am. So there has been plenty of time for a music reviewer of long standing to get to know those performances.

And every day here on GMG, you get people expressing opinions about which recordings they prefer of repertoire, including giving advice on box sets. And yet I cannot remember ever, EVER having an opinion challenged by someone saying "when's the last time you listened to it?". People just accept that other posters are familiar with the recording they are talking about.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 03:09:06 PM by Madiel »
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Offline (poco) Sforzando

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #409 on: October 17, 2020, 07:03:00 PM »
I would have thought it blindingly obvious that he hasn't listened to all of the material between, say, that video and the previous video.

But I would also find it very weird to make any assumption that that is what he's remotely claiming in these comparisons. It's completely different to when a single new release album is reviewed.

We're frequently talking about performances that are DECADES old. Hell, the classical music industry is perfectly happily to regurgitate and re-release recordings that are older than I am. So there has been plenty of time for a music reviewer of long standing to get to know those performances.

And every day here on GMG, you get people expressing opinions about which recordings they prefer of repertoire, including giving advice on box sets. And yet I cannot remember ever, EVER having an opinion challenged by someone saying "when's the last time you listened to it?". People just accept that other posters are familiar with the recording they are talking about.

Yes, I understand perfectly well what's "blindlngly obvious." Yet some of Dave's recent recs are for large box sets of recently released new material, like that huge CPE Bach set and the huge HM Opera Baroque compilation. These are not recordings that are older than either of us, and that's what prompted my comment. Of course I recognize we can all comment on recordings we've lived with for years, even decades.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Offline Jo498

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #410 on: October 17, 2020, 11:39:38 PM »
I actually find the boxes recommendations despite them being huge, slightly more plausible than the supposedly "best" among a series of pieces with a huge discography. Hurwitz wrote a book about Haydn more than 10 years ago and he probably lived with the Dorati recordings for 40 years. He also didn't claim that it is the absolute best Haydn, just that the box as a whole is worthwhile. In case of the CPE Bach, it could also be that he was involved in writing booklets, he did some for Hänssler in the past. And here there is also the fact that there is not that much competition, so if one thinks that the box is overall very good and CPE Bach deserving of a huge edition it is the only game in town for many pieces and auto-recommendation.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Jo498

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #411 on: October 18, 2020, 12:58:34 PM »
Haydn's Paris symphonies favs

below
written
in
white
to
avoid
spoilers
may
still
be
visible
depending
on
settings



82 Karajan
83 Sanderling
84 Fey
85 Vegh (live)
86 Harnoncourt
87 Bernstein

Bernstein and Harnoncourt are the set favorites with Fey getting honorable mention


Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline (poco) Sforzando

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #412 on: October 18, 2020, 07:29:58 PM »
Haydn's Paris symphonies favs

below
written
in
white
to
avoid
spoilers
may
still
be
visible
depending
on
settings

Easily visible if you just drag your mouse over the white, which inverts the colors. I'll stay with Bernstein and Brüggen myself.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Offline Madiel

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #413 on: October 18, 2020, 10:31:50 PM »
Is this just going to become a thread where we save people the bother of reading or seeing reviews for themselves?
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Offline Jo498

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #414 on: October 18, 2020, 11:09:24 PM »
Easily visible if you just drag your mouse over the white, which inverts the colors. I'll stay with Bernstein and Brüggen myself.
Sure, this is the way to "resolve" the spoiler. But depending on the sharpness of one's eyes and some settings the white on light blue is readable without highlighting.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Daverz

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #415 on: October 18, 2020, 11:11:20 PM »
Sure, this is the way to "resolve" the spoiler. But depending on the sharpness of one's eyes and some settings the white on light blue is readable without highlighting.

Yeah, when it's quoted it pops right out.  I think there is a spoiler tag available for this forum software, but it's an extra.

Offline Florestan

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #416 on: October 19, 2020, 12:14:17 AM »
Is this just going to become a thread where we save people the bother of reading or seeing reviews for themselves?

More like where people discuss Hurwitz's faves and reviews while pretending they ignore him.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #417 on: October 19, 2020, 12:18:15 AM »
More like where people discuss Hurwitz's faves and reviews while pretending they ignore him.

Well, if they actually DID discuss them, that might be something. That's kind of my point. Recently the thread seems to have devolved into a copy/paste exercise.
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Online Herman

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #418 on: October 19, 2020, 12:26:38 AM »
I think one could do much worse than watching his YT videos.

Disagree.

I could imagine just listening to music without worrying what this clown constantly laughing at his own old-man jokes says is a much better way to spend one's time.

Offline Florestan

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Re: David Hurwitz
« Reply #419 on: October 19, 2020, 12:31:29 AM »
Well, if they actually DID discuss them, that might be something. That's kind of my point. Recently the thread seems to have devolved into a copy/paste exercise.

Yep, verily. My point is that pretty much everybody here seem to dislike Hurwitz yet many of them seem quite interested in his faves and preferences.
“Play Mozart in memory of me --- and I will hear you.” — Chopin