David Hurwitz

Started by Scion7, January 11, 2016, 06:42:39 PM

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Daverz

Quote from: vandermolen on July 30, 2020, 10:55:46 AM
I very much agree with him about Rattle and Norrington but totally disagree with his verdict on Horenstein and Furtwangler.

It's not just his opinions on these conductors, these are very old feuds he picked himself (he got kicked off a Horenstein listserv, for example), and that Dave keeps coming back to again and again in a tiresome way.  I've already mentioned his tendency toward boorishness and trolling (https://www.classicstoday.com/kathleen-ferrier-englands-greatest-contralto-or-fruit-basket/).  That said, I really enjoy the repertoire videos, not so much the attack vids.

Karl Henning

Quote from: Daverz on July 30, 2020, 04:14:51 PM
It's not just his opinions on these conductors, these are very old feuds he picked himself (he got kicked off a Horenstein listserv, for example)

Perhaps because he is an ass....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Jo498 on July 30, 2020, 03:52:59 AM
Some of his bêtes noires are Rattle, Furtwängler, Horenstein, Norrington

I like recordings by all of these conductors (except Norrington, whose work I haven't really heard). None the less, sometimes Hurwitz can be worthwhile, as when he points out specific problems or issues in their recordings. I note that he often includes score references when he really wants to trash something, but never when he's being positive.

He does have his favorite conductors as well - never heard him say anything bad about Klemperer, Ancerl, or Giulini.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 30, 2020, 12:09:20 PM
I see posters here saying they don't agree with Hurwitz 100% of the time, and that includes me saying that as well. But I've also never read, or watched, a critic of any art form that I agreed with 100% of the time, I don't see that being possible.

Ain't it the truth. BTW I bought that Beethoven or Bust book also, ages ago and secondhand.

Anyway, Hurwitz is one of the critics who turned me on to Martinu, along with Jim Svejda. So I will be eternally grateful for that.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

71 dB

He has made an enthusiastic Youtube video about Einar Englund.  0:)
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Jo498

Quote from: Daverz on July 30, 2020, 04:14:51 PM
It's not just his opinions on these conductors, these are very old feuds he picked himself (he got kicked off a Horenstein listserv, for example), and that Dave keeps coming back to again and again in a tiresome way.  I've already mentioned his tendency toward boorishness and trolling (https://www.classicstoday.com/kathleen-ferrier-englands-greatest-contralto-or-fruit-basket/).  That said, I really enjoy the repertoire videos, not so much the attack vids.
Very well put. I don't want him to agree with my preferences (he has a right to be wrong and so have I) but he can be very tiresome in preaching about his dislikes and especially about the stupid fans who are not able to see through the undeserved reputations of Furtwängler, Horenstein etc. As you said, these feuds are also too old to give Hurwitz any credit for pushing someone from a pedestal.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

vandermolen

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on July 30, 2020, 12:09:20 PM
I see posters here saying they don't agree with Hurwitz 100% of the time, and that includes me saying that as well. But I've also never read, or watched, a critic of any art form that I agreed with 100% of the time, I don't see that being possible. I really enjoy reading negative reviews, or criticisms, that I don't agree with, or those that have a different opinion of mine. It helps me to experience the piece from a side I may have missed, or ignored. Or it could even confirm my opinion. Of course I would need more than a "I just didn't like it" review to make it worth it.
When shopping I often find myself seeking out negative reviews of that product, or service, more than I do the positive reviews. Anyone else find themselves doing this?
Good point. Me too re. the reviews.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: 71 dB on July 30, 2020, 07:26:34 PM
He has made an enthusiastic Youtube video about Einar Englund.  0:)
Yes, I've just spotted that.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Irons

Just watched his Walton 1 video. His enthusiasm for the symphony is without question and found of most interest his comments on the difficulty for the orchestra to play this symphony well. Haitink will not have Hurwitz on his Christmas card list for sure. His top choice held no surprises and I have no argument, but disappointing that he didn't audition Sargent. 
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

I opened the door people rushed through and I was left holding the knob - Bo Diddley.

vandermolen

Quote from: Irons on July 31, 2020, 06:37:13 AM
Just watched his Walton 1 video. His enthusiasm for the symphony is without question and found of most interest his comments on the difficulty for the orchestra to play this symphony well. Haitink will not have Hurwitz on his Christmas card list for sure. His top choice held no surprises and I have no argument, but disappointing that he didn't audition Sargent.

Yes, poor Sir Malcolm. His Walton Symphony No.1 is only appreciated by you, me and one or two others here  8)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Florestan

#309
I disagree with him a lot but at least he's got a great sense of humor even when he's dead wrong --- and in my book this is a big plus.

Besides, if some guy posting Youtube reviews can really make another guy lose their sleep over it then it's the latter guy's problem, not the former's.

Heck, the Earth would not stop revolving around the Sun and the world's troubles would not come to a halt just because someone is wrong on the internet.

A little more sense of proportion and perspective plus a little more relaxation and nonchalance would help enormously some people, methinks. For instance, I don't see how anyone can find Hurwitz tiresome except someone who constantly watches his videos or read his reviews --- but then again why would one do just that to begin with?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Florestan on July 31, 2020, 07:01:10 AM

Heck, the Earth would not stop revolving around the Sun and the world's troubles would not come to a halt just because someone is wrong on the internet.
You mean that there is someone who is wrong on the internet [Insert blinking eyes.]?!   :o ???

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Florestan

#311
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on July 31, 2020, 09:26:58 AM
You mean that there is someone who is wrong on the internet [Insert blinking eyes.]?!   :o ???

PD

Yes. His username is Florestan and he posts on GMG. He had been repeatedly trying to convince his wife that he's right both on the internet and about posting on the internet, but he hasn't made much headway.

;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Florestan on July 31, 2020, 09:37:33 AM
Yes. His username is Florestan and he posts on GMG. He had been repeatedly trying to convince his wife that he's right both on the internet and about posting on the internet, but he hasn't made much headway.

;D
:laugh:  :)
Pohjolas Daughter

Karl Henning

I find this thread entertaining .... 8)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 31, 2020, 11:55:58 AM
I find this thread entertaining .... 8)
"The next show will be at 7 p.m. tonight.  Please come and bring your family and friends."

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Madiel

Quote from: Jo498 on July 30, 2020, 03:52:59 AM
Hurwitz has a bunch of pet peeves and oddball favorites

Which of us does not?
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Jo498

He can have them, but as Daverz pointed out, Hurwitz tends to overdo it in a predictable fashion, so for people who have not read him for years it might be entertaining for a while but for others it's like grinding horse skeletons to dust.
I also think that a professional critic could be held to slightly higher standards than some random dude on the internet.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Madiel

#317
Really?

You're basically criticising him for being a human being and having opinions.

If you want objective reviews, get them from an algorithm. The notion of the objective reviewer is a fantasy that people keep reaching for whenever a reviewer's personal preferences don't align with their own. Reviewers are most useful when you know and understand their personal tastes and how they align (or don't) with your own, not when you insist that the reviewer irons them out and doesn't tell you what they genuinely, personally thought.

The only people who don't have opinions on a subject are people who don't care about a subject. And having people that don't care about a subject writing reviews in that field is just pointless.
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Jo498

No, this is of course not the criticism. Didn't you read what I wrote? I wrote explicitly that it is not about clashing personal preferences; e.g. I am not even sure I have ever heard a recording by Horenstein and don't really have strong (or myself rather mixed) opinions on Rattle, Furtwängler or Norrington but I still find Hurwitz ranting about them literally for decades very silly and the extent to which he does it should be beneath a serious professional critic.
Apparently you have not had such a long acquaintance with Hurwitz's ramblings on certain topics. One can simply stay silent about a topic instead of annoyingly overdoing it. Like bringing up stuff like string vibrato and the tam tam parts all the time, even if not central to a particular review. Or simply not review Reger recordings, if one doesn't care for the music instead of trashing a lesser known composer, basically a cheap shot.
But here we have another quandary because a professional critic might not want to admit that he knows not that much about a certain field (e.g. vocal music) and obviously many people never shut up. To be fair, Hurwitz had solved this for Classics Today by leaving stuff he didn't know very well or care about to others. E.g. they have/had Jed Distler and I think another guy doing most of the solo piano reviews and similarly for opera/vocal stuff.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Madiel

I've been reading Classics Today reviews for a number of years.

Can't be arsed with the videos.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!