David Hurwitz

[Daverz]

I totally agree with this. The slow movements of 2 and 3 are the "reason" to listen to these. 

It's actually "only" £14.29 + shipping (condition good) on Amazon.co.uk, but even that is a bit high, especially as I haven't even heard the CD. I can stream it on Spotify, althout tonight I will watch snooker on tv. I avoid downloads. I am a physical media guy. I looked for some Argerich boxes, but didn't find this one, maybe because this is DG and those boxes where Warner.

Yeah, there's an Argerich "Complete DG Recordings" box.  Not many such boxes have such a high hit/miss ratio (well, at least for Argerich fans).

If you don't want to get the complete DG box, there's a "chamber ensemble" box with the Bartok Sonata for 2 Pianos & Percussion with Freire:

https://www.amazon.com/Martha-Argerich-Collection-Chamber-Ensembles/dp/B003W16TBS

[71 dB]

The only geniuses I see on YouTube are the composers of whom I watch these 'boring' documentaries. Those are the real geniuses in my mind. I wouldn't be caught dead watching one of those videos you watch on that site, because 1. I'm not brain-dead and 2. I'm not easily lead (i. e. gullible) into believing the propaganda in which you subscribe.

I don't think you know what kind of videos I watch on Youtube. A small portion of those have been about US politics which is what I believe you are preferring to when you mention "the propaganda." By "evil" I mean the videos are addictive. For example Dan Bell documents dying/dead shopping malls in a genius way utilizing the psychological aspects of "liminal spaces" and nostalgia. The only political propaganda in those videos is "People shop online these days so shopping malls in areas where people's income level is dropping are really struggling." Or how about recreational math? There is hardly anything political about calculating fancy integrals and the only propaganda is "Math is cool!" Even if we talk about the US politics videos I watch I have said a million time people are much better believing the likes of TYT, Secular Talk, David Pakman, The Humanist Report, Christo Aivalis, etc. than the corporate media. I wish we could drop this negativity already and concentrate on positive things.

[71 dB]

Yeah, there's an Argerich "Complete DG Recordings" box.  Not many such boxes have such a high hit/miss ratio (well, at least for Argerich fans).

If you don't want to get the complete DG box, there's a "chamber ensemble" box with the Bartok Sonata for 2 Pianos & Percussion with Freire:

https://www.amazon.com/Martha-Argerich-Collection-Chamber-Ensembles/dp/B003W16TBS

Thanks for the link. The 6 CD box might be too much and the backcover photo is out of focus so it's hard to see what's in the box... 

[Mirror Image]

I don't think you know what kind of videos I watch on Youtube. A small portion of those have been about US politics which is what I believe you are preferring to when you mention "the propaganda." By "evil" I mean the videos are addictive. For example Dan Bell documents dying/dead shopping malls in a genius way utilizing the psychological aspects of "liminal spaces" and nostalgia. The only political propaganda in those videos is "People shop online these days so shopping malls in areas where people's income level is dropping are really struggling." Or how about recreational math? There is hardly anything political about calculating fancy integrals and the only propaganda is "Math is cool!" Even if we talk about the US politics videos I watch I have said a million time people are much better believing the likes of TYT, Secular Talk, David Pakman, The Humanist Report, Christo Aivalis, etc. than the corporate media. I wish we could drop this negativity already and concentrate on positive things.

To the bolded text, this would've made a lot of sense if you hadn't had written all of that other stuff before you wrote that last sentence. In any case, fair enough. I won't bother you any longer about this. My point has been made.

[Daverz]

Can we stop trying to micromanage other people's time management, please?  When someone complains they don't have time for things, I usually just take it as small talk.  Taking someone to task for it seems a bit gormless to me.

For example Dan Bell documents dying/dead shopping malls in a genius way utilizing the psychological aspects of "liminal spaces" and nostalgia.

While truly dead malls are depressing, those dying mall videos (I usually watch the Retail Archeology ones), with their big, almost empty indoor spaces, can be so restive.   

I probably watch more SaveAFox videos than anything else.  I don't have cable, so YT makes up most of my video watching.  I do subscribe to some video streaming services, but I should stop as I've been barely using them lately, finding most movies and TV series not holding my interest anymore.

Hmm, it seems the political YT I watch is more radical than what 71dB is watching.  I do not like TYT and don't care much for Pakman, but at least it's not Jimmy Dore.  For a daily "current events" show, I usually watch The Majority Report.    Most of my favorite "breadtube" channels have not been very productive lately: Contrapoints, Shaun, Three Arrows, Innuendo Studios, Big Joel, Timbah.On.Toast, LonerBox, Jonas Čeika, Bad Empanada.

[Mirror Image]

Anyway...back to Hurwitz. Goodness, this guy never shuts up. Watching him is the equivalent of walking into a room of screaming babies. His voice is irritating and I really can't stand how he spends so much time on enunciation of composers and then says "Ah, who really cares how it's pronounced." He wastes a lot of time beating around the bush instead of just getting on with it and saying what he wants. I read on some forum (maybe this one?) that someone actually met him and he was the nicest guy and that's all well fine and all, but his videos need either trimming down or he should start thinking about adding in some graphics, because as it stands right now, they're a slog to get through.

[71 dB]

While truly dead malls are depressing, those dying mall videos (I usually watch the Retail Archeology ones), with their big, almost empty indoor spaces, can be so restive.   

Wow, someone else on GMG watching dead malls videos on Youtube!  0:) Related to these I also watch Urbex videos (The Proper People is my favorite, but there are so many to choose from.) Btw, "restive" was completely new english word for me. I suppose it's used VERY seldom?

I probably watch more SaveAFox videos than anything else.  I don't have cable, so YT makes up most of my video watching.  I do subscribe to some video streaming services, but I should stop as I've been barely using them lately, finding most movies and TV series not holding my interest anymore.

Yeah, foxes are supercool animals. I watch TYR the White Fox, but also other fox channels (pun intented) occationally. I have "cable" meaning about 2 dozen free tv channels + maybe 200 pay channels which I don't subscribe to. Youtube rules for me. Sometimes I watch something from tv, but most of it is uninteresting garbage. I use Blu-ray a lot to watch movies.

Hmm, it seems the political YT I watch is more radical and anti-capitalist than what 71dB is watching.  I do not like TYT and don't care much for Pakman, but at least it's not Jimmy Dore.  I usually watch The Majority Report.    Most of my favorite "breadtube" channels have not been very productive lately: Contrapoints, Shaun, Three Arrows, Innuendo Studios, Big Joel, Timbah.On.Toast, LonerBox, Jonas Čeika, Bad Empanada.

I used to watch Jimmy Dore in the beginning when I got into US politics in 2017, but I kind of got fed up with his "stand-up" style of politics. So, it's more of "how" he says than "what" he says. Sam Seder's laconic style isn't my style either. Of the other channels you mention I only know Contrapoints, althou I only watch a few of her videos couple of years back. There's just so many serious content creators! That's why everyone can discover their own favorites and that's why they are do addictive.

The political channels I watch tend to favor social democracy which is anti-crony-capitalist rather than anti-capitalist. As far as I know The Majority Report is also in this group more or less.

TYT gets to the nerves of some people, but I tolerate them and acknowledge their massive size and influence. They are very important in the realm of US lefty media.

[71 dB]

His voice is irritating and I really can't stand how he spends so much time on enunciation of composers and then says "Ah, who really cares how it's pronounced."

I find his voice fun to listen to. In one video he pronounced Einojuhani Rautavaara quite well (maybe 88 % correctly) for an English-speaker. That's the kind of Finnish name that gets often butchered fiercely by people who are not native Finnish speakers.

[Madiel]

Anyway...back to Hurwitz. Goodness, this guy never shuts up. Watching him is the equivalent of walking into a room of screaming babies. His voice is irritating and I really can't stand how he spends so much time on enunciation of composers and then says "Ah, who really cares how it's pronounced." He wastes a lot of time beating around the bush instead of just getting on with it and saying what he wants. I read on some forum (maybe this one?) that someone actually met him and he was the nicest guy and that's all well fine and all, but his videos need either trimming down or he should start thinking about adding in some graphics, because as it stands right now, they're a slog to get through.

I still prefer the written reviews for much this reason. And indeed, the contents of many of the videos (about the best recording of a work, etc) essentially end up reflecting the written reviews anyway. Not least because it's a standard part of Classics Today to list what they consider the reference recordings. There's been a few times when that sort of information has enabled me to know what is in an 'Insider' review without subscribing (though I've considered subscribing lately to access everything, I can probably afford to do so).

It's one of the interesting things about the internet is that many people don't seem to realise the importance of editing, when the medium itself doesn't force them to edit. I don't know whether it's partly a factor of this COVID year in Hurwitz' case, where it really is just him sitting at home and talking. But he'd still be better off doing editing or retakes or just planning his script a lot more tightly.

And the whole "who cares how it's pronounced" shtick really needs to go. It's rude. It would actually be better to just get it wrong, and maybe admit that, than to say "who cares".

[Mirror Image]

I still prefer the written reviews for much this reason. And indeed, the contents of many of the videos (about the best recording of a work, etc) essentially end up reflecting the written reviews anyway. Not least because it's a standard part of Classics Today to list what they consider the reference recordings. There's been a few times when that sort of information has enabled me to know what is in an 'Insider' review without subscribing (though I've considered subscribing lately to access everything, I can probably afford to do so).

It's one of the interesting things about the internet is that many people don't seem to realise the importance of editing, when the medium itself doesn't force them to edit. I don't know whether it's partly a factor of this COVID year in Hurwitz' case, where it really is just him sitting at home and talking. But he'd still be better off doing editing or retakes or just planning his script a lot more tightly.

And the whole "who cares how it's pronounced" shtick really needs to go. It's rude. It would actually be better to just get it wrong, and maybe admit that, than to say "who cares".

Some good points here. I especially like the idea of sticking to a script, which helps eliminate the dead weight. He posts so many of these videos that I think the idea of trimming them down or doing any sort of editing isn't important, especially when people are kissing his ass with comments like "Great video!" or "Keep them coming!" I mean it would nice to actually read one comment on one of his videos that complain about the actual content and the way it's presented, but, alas, I have yet to see one, but then again, it's not like I'm looking for those comments either or can be bothered to sift through the congratulatory bullshit in order to find one comment that actually criticizes his way of going about making these videos.

[Madiel]

You could always write one...

[Mirror Image]

You could always write one...

I'm afraid my comment won't be nice and I don't want to end up sounding like I'm insulting the man, which I've already done plenty of here.

[knight66]

Sure. As long as you stop posting garbage like this:

Since this probably won't happen, I think I'm allowed to call someone else out on their self-pity posts. But it's quite alright as 71 dB never actually reads responses --- he just keeps writing and writing and writing ad nauseam.

Can I just remind folks to be careful, try not to step on one another's toes please.

Knight

[(poco) Sforzando]

In the Haydn Symphony Crusade (no. 6), we don't just get "I really don't," but "I really, really don't." Beat that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0ytKqcODGE, 5:43.

[(poco) Sforzando]

"One of the bitchiest, most mean-spirited essays in musical history," sez Dave. What is he talking about? That 25-second video where he threw the complete works of Pierre Boulez in the air and called them "garbage"? Mais non! In fact, courtesy of an essay supplied by our good friend and esteemed colleague Brian Reinhart, Dave is talking about a man "who taught a whole generation of composers we all despise," that is - René Leibowitz, sez Dave, bitchily relishing his impeccable pronunciation of Leibowitz's French-German name. (Never mind that Boulez quarreled fiercely with Leibowitz, writing that "the academism of his (RL's) analysis and so on was unbearable to me." And never mind that this "whole generation of composers we all despise" has been championed and recorded by such non-entities as Charles Rosen, Robert Craft, Maurizio Pollini, Allan Gilbert, Claudio Abbado, David Robertson, usw.)

Leibowitz was totally wrong about Sibelius. But lots of composers are wrong about others ("Beethoven is ready for the madhouse," said Weber of the 4th symphony; "that giftless bastard Brahms," said Tchaikovsky, whose opinion was echoed by Britten decades later), and if ever a pot called a kettle black, it was Mr. Hurwitz on this occasion. It really was.

[Florestan]

"Beethoven is ready for the madhouse," said Weber of the 4th symphony;

It was actually the 7th and it was actually one of Schindler's countless fabrications.

The oft-repeated claim that Carl Maria von Weber considered the chromatic bass line in the coda of the first movement evidence that Beethoven was "ripe for the madhouse" seems to have been the invention of Beethoven's first biographer, Anton Schindler. His possessive adulation of Beethoven is well-known, and he was criticised by his contemporaries for his obsessive attacks on Weber. According to John Warrack, Weber's biographer, Schindler was characteristically evasive when defending Beethoven, and there is "no shred of concrete evidence" that Weber ever made the remark.[14]

[(poco) Sforzando]

It was actually the 7th and it was actually one of Schindler's countless fabrications.

Ah yes. I was mixing up two Weber reactions. But he said this for sure about the 4th:
https://sites.google.com/site/kenocstuff/weber-on-beethoven-s-fourth-symphony
"First a slow movement full of short disjointed unconnected ideas, at the rate of three or four notes per quarter of an hour; then a mysterious roll of the drum and passage of the violas, seasoned with the proper quantity of pauses and ritardandos; and to end all a furious finale, in which the only requisite is that there should be no ideas for the hearer to make out, but plenty of transitions from one key to another."

And this detail does not rebut my main point, i.e. that some judgments against composers are preposterously unjust. Why, some folks have been known to inveigh against Havergal Brian!

[Madiel]

People have tastes.

People are horrified that other people have tastes.

[Florestan]

Ah yes. I was mixing up two Weber reactions. But he said this for sure about the 4th:
https://sites.google.com/site/kenocstuff/weber-on-beethoven-s-fourth-symphony
"First a slow movement full of short disjointed unconnected ideas, at the rate of three or four notes per quarter of an hour; then a mysterious roll of the drum and passage of the violas, seasoned with the proper quantity of pauses and ritardandos; and to end all a furious finale, in which the only requisite is that there should be no ideas for the hearer to make out, but plenty of transitions from one key to another."

But, but, but, dear Mr. Sforz, this source is just as untrustful as Schindler:

In 1809, Carl Maria von Weber published a biting satire on Beethoven's Fourth Symphony. It was summarized by Sir George Grove in his 1896 book, "Beethoven and His Nine Symphonies." Let's not forget that this same Weber was supposed to have pronounced Beethoven "ripe for the madhouse" upon hearing the Seventh Symphony! Anyway, here's Sir George:

Say what? Instead of a link to that original 1809 biting satire Weber supposedly published (at the very least, we should have been told which journal, which issue and which page) we are offered a "summary" by Sir George Grove, and a reminder that Weber "was supposedto have pronounced Beethoven "ripe for the madhouse" upon hearing the Seventh Symphony".

Sir George Grove is dead and burried; so is Weber; so is Schindler. Who is going to shed light upon this strange case, I wonder?

[Florestan]

People have tastes.

People are horrified that other people have tastes.

The tragedy and downfall of GMG in a nutshell.