David Hurwitz

[DavidW]

Whoa. Hurwitz makes the big time.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/can-dave-hurwitz-save-classical-recording?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dhfacebook&utm_content=null

The article is way more than that. It is a reflection on the recording of classical musical history over the decades, a tired attack on period style performances, and posing the question of the future of physical media.

The article is well worth the time of anyone reading it. If you don't have a subscription to the New Yorker, use the Wayback Machine and copy and paste as fast as you can (the archive creates a time delay before the article gets paywalled).

I honestly still can't believe that there are still neanderthals out there who rant about HIP "authenticity", quote Taruskin, and rant about the sound of period instruments. The movement has well proven to have its niche, and if you don't like it, just live and let live or, at the very least, use your critical thinking skills to come up with your own argument instead of borrowing something you read in the NYT in the 90s.

[Karl Henning]

I honestly still can't believe that there are still neanderthals out there who rant about HIP "authenticity", quote Taruskin, and rant about the sound of period instruments

well, as the namesake of this thread demonstrates haters gonna hate.

[ritter]

I don't give a hoot about Mr. Hurwitz, but must say that in his video obituaries of Messrs. Brendel and Norrington, respectively, he has descended to new depths of vulgarity and silliness (starting by the titles he's given to those videos).

[Karl Henning]

I don't give a hoot about Mr. Hurwitz, but must say that in his video obituaries of Messrs. Brendel and Norrington, respectively, he has descended to new depths of vulgarity and silliness (starting by the titles he's given to those videos).

Thanks for taking one for the team. You've given prime examples of why I simply have no time for Hurwitz.

[DavidW]

I don't give a hoot about Mr. Hurwitz, but must say that in his video obituaries of Messrs. Brendel and Norrington, respectively, he has descended to new depths of vulgarity and silliness (starting by the titles he's given to those videos).

The article itself takes pot shots at Norrington. I choose to think that the author wrote it before Norrington passed and the writer is a decent human being.

[Mister Sharpe]

I've - quite recently - lost the little respect I had for him. 

[Herman]

I honestly still can't believe that there are still neanderthals out there who rant about HIP "authenticity", quote Taruskin, and rant about the sound of period instruments. The movement has well proven to have its niche, and if you don't like it, just live and let live or, at the very least, use your critical thinking skills to come up with your own argument instead of borrowing something you read in the NYT in the 90s.

Well, David Denby, the author of this strange piece, is over eighty (80) years old, so perhaps this is why he talks as if HIP is just a new kid on the block. I particularly love his contention that 'all great US and EU orchestras still play on modern instruments' in spite of HIP. I would think Gardiners Orchestre Revolutionnaire et Romantique or Koopman's Amsterdam Baroque and a couple more are great orchestras, too. But in Denby's thinking they can't be great because they don't play steel strings etc.(I bet Denby thinks the NYPhilharmonic is great orchestra, too. I don't.)

Having written for magazines in the past, I get the feeling this piece is one of those that staff writers or freelancers manage to slip by the editor in the summer when the editor is off to proverbial Cape Cod and at last there's a chance to ride one's hobby horse in public.

[André]

'proverbial Cape Cod'  ?

[Brian]

'proverbial Cape Cod'  ?

The American intellectual upper crust of long-standing might run off to Cape Cod, the Hamptons, etc for their summer beach house getaways.

[Daverz]

Hurwitz has never dismissed HIP recordings out of hand.  He enthusiastically recommends HIP recordings all the time.  An example (there are many) is the Bernius recording of the Kalliwoda Symphony No. 1.  The Fanfare review savaged this recording for the HIP playing*.  Hurwitz doesn't even mention anything about the orchestral sound, presumably  because there are no other recordings on CD.  I'd much prefer a warmer, fuller orchestral sonority myself (which is why I keep a scratchy old Turnabout LP of the Kalliwoda with the Prague SO).

His thing is criticizing the HIP doctrine against using vibrato in string playing, and on this I agree completely, not because I have an argument, but because it so obviously sounds like shit.

* Fanfare critics are still often cantankerous about HIP.  There's an opinion piece about it in the current Sept/Oct issue in response to another opinion piece in an earlier issue. Hurwitz is not really outside the mainstream of critical opinion here. 

[(poco) Sforzando]

(I bet Denby thinks the NYPhilharmonic is great orchestra, too. I don't.)

No doubt your ears are far more cultivated than mine, but just what is your problem with the New York Philharmonic? As a fan of the "home team," I've been to many concerts by the NYP, and I consider them a superb group. But perhaps you can enlighten me as to what I'm missing.

[Jo498]

Most of the HIP groups still aren't permanent orchestras, they certainly were not in the 1980s.

Back then there was simply not enough money to be made that way, so they usually played either in another "modern" orchestra or had freelance or teaching jobs or whatever. (Harnoncourt himself played 'cello in the Wiener Symphoniker during the 60s despite his work with the Concentus musicus and when he could afford to quit, most of the Concentus members would still play elsewhere.)

But most are probably still today more like the Bayreuth festival orchestra; there is a pool of musicians who work together for certain times for a bunch of concerts or for recording projects.
As many HIP ensembles used to list members in the booklets, it was easy to see that especially the wind players often overlapped among ensembles with different names recording for different labels.
Sure, there are far more specialized musicians around now than 30-40 years ago but it was like that for a long time.

[Florestan]

His thing is criticizing the HIP doctrine against using vibrato in string playing, and on this I agree completely, not because I have an argument, but because it so obviously sounds like shit.

Agreed 110% --- and nowhere is the lack of vibrato more inappropriate and annoying than in Boccherini. His warm, soulful and mellifluous music turns cold and lifeless, devoid of any feeling.

[Herman]

Most of the HIP groups still aren't permanent orchestras, they certainly were not in the 1980s.

We're in the 21st century now. Some of the best orchestras / ensembles consist of excellent ensemble players who reassemble for tours or series of concerts. All these players know each other and the conductors like the back of their hand and vice versa.

The model of the boomer generation orchestra as a lifelong steady job is not the only option you have as a musician.

There's this anecdote of some conductor starting a rehearsal and saying 'What happened to my orchestra?' (implying some guest conductor changed his desired sound). Like most music and orchestra anecdotes this most likely never happened, however it appeals to this fantasy of an orchestra as an unchanging organism that will always sound the same, through the generations. That's a fiction. It also reminds me how a violist told me the thing with Haitink was, it didn't really matter which orchestra he was conducting. Within twenty minutes, first rehearsal, the orchestra produced that Haitink sound.

Combining orchestra playing with teaching is something almost all orchestra musicians do, including those who play in big orchestras like Berlin or Concertgebouw.

[DavidW]

Hurwitz has never dismissed HIP recordings out of hand. 

We weren't talking about him! We were talking about David Denby. Hurwitz has Brautigam in his top pantheon of Beethoven PSs, I know he can enjoy a good period style performance. I was talking about how the author of the article went off his meds and just went on and on about how much he hated period instruments.

[Daverz]

We weren't talking about him! We were talking about David Denby. Hurwitz has Brautigam in his top pantheon of Beethoven PSs, I know he can enjoy a good period style performance. I was talking about how the author of the article went off his meds and just went on and on about how much he hated period instruments.

Ah.  Well there are a lot of old cranky guys writing about classical music, as anyone who has read American Record Guide in the last 40 years knows well.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Ah.  Well there are a lot of old cranky guys writing about classical music, as anyone who has read American Record Guide in the last 40 years knows well.

Not to mention a lot of old cranky guys on this board. 

[Daverz]

Not to mention a lot of old cranky guys on this board. 

Guilty on all counts.