Author Topic: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.  (Read 155254 times)

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Offline Symphonic Addict

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #720 on: June 08, 2020, 09:18:22 AM »
As far as I know, Englund has his own thread.  :P
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Offline kyjo

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #721 on: June 08, 2020, 09:49:58 AM »
Einar Englund disc of his Cello Concerto and the 6th Symphony on Ondine arrived today. Just listened to it the first time. The Cello Concerto is very nice, especially the Adagio is "DEEP."  0:) The 6th Symphony isn't my (or anyone else's) favorite Englund Symphony, but it's okay. I am not a fan of this kind of works for orchestra and chorus.

I really like Englund's "no nonsense" approach. The music is rich, but contains nothing unnecessory. Especially I like how his music is totally free of national romanticism, but still sounds very "Finnish."

The Englund Cello Concerto is excellent - I could describe it as "Moeran meets Shostakovich", in a way! Other favorite Englund works of mine include the Symphony no. 2 The Blackbird and the Piano Concerto no. 2.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #722 on: June 08, 2020, 10:00:03 AM »
The Englund Cello Concerto is excellent - I could describe it as "Moeran meets Shostakovich", in a way! Other favorite Englund works of mine include the Symphony no. 2 The Blackbird and the Piano Concerto no. 2.

I know nothing about Moeran, but Shostakovich's Cello Concertos are great if I remember correctly (have not listened to them for ages!). Agree about Symphony No. 2 and I am waiting for the Ondine disc of the Piano Concertos to arrive...
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Offline Brewski

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #723 on: June 11, 2020, 06:35:44 AM »
The subject of this thread is Scandinavian and Finnish composers. For those who wish to discuss other things, please do so elsewhere, or via private message. Thank you.

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Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #724 on: June 11, 2020, 10:27:46 AM »
(...)

Give me a break. We have been discussing Einar Englund, a FINNISH composer! What next? Threads with a list of 100 allowed words? I am really feeling like leaving this forum. First I was banned from political threads and now when I try to contribute music threads moderators keep whining.

I try so hard to make this place less toxic, but look at how other people (Mirror Image, Karl Hanning) react. I don't attack other here, but I am constantly attacked.

I think the mod's note is referring to some very recent  posts that were now deleted because of personal quarelling and attacks. It's got nothing to do with Shostakovich being mentioned, for example; Englund's relations to Shostakovich's music are an often-occurring subject elsewhere too, also scholarly in record liner notes etc.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 10:29:40 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #725 on: June 11, 2020, 11:34:31 AM »
I think the mod's note is referring to some very recent  posts that were now deleted because of personal quarelling and attacks. It's got nothing to do with Shostakovich being mentioned, for example; Englund's relations to Shostakovich's music are an often-occurring subject elsewhere too, also scholarly in record liner notes etc.

Oh, okay. My mistake. I deleted my post...  :P
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Online Christo

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #726 on: June 11, 2020, 11:39:12 AM »
Listened to Englunds Cello Concerto and Symphony 6 again and liked the Symphony even more (the first listen was so so)

Give me a break. We have been discussing Einar Englund, a FINNISH composer! What next? Threads with a list of 100 allowed words? I am really feeling like leaving this forum. First I was banned from political threads and now when I try to contribute music threads moderators keep whining.

I try so hard to make this place less toxic, but look at how other people (Mirror Image, Karl Hanning) react. I don't attack other here, but I am constantly attacked.

This time, they were certainly not aiming at you - your mistake.  :D Only in case you would have called Englund 'a bloody Swedish colonial occupier' as no doubt a True Finn (political party) would have done, we could have taken offense, but of course you didn't.  ;)
I'm happy, since I'm an admirer of Englund's symphonies, especially the Fourth and later ones, No. 6 perhaps excluded. Perhaps we should return to his own long forgotten thread?  :(
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Offline André

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #727 on: June 11, 2020, 03:50:54 PM »
Cross posted from WAYL2

Quote


2 works for cello and piano, one for solo cello by Herman Koppel (1908-1998). From his grandson Benjamin we get Professor Herman’s Cellistic Imaginarium, an homage to the disc’s solo cello work by his grand-dad. Both solo cello works use tone rows and are quite modern in idiom, whereas those where the cello is paired with the piano are more conservatively phrased. The piano writing reminds me of the mix of plangency and acerbity found in Shostakovich’s chamber works with piano. A great program, displaying much variety of tone.

Herman Koppel is one of my favourite composers from northern Europe. An exact contemporary of Vagn Holmboe,  I find him just as interesting by virtue of his broad compositional palette. He composed in tonal or atonal language with equal mastery and felicity.

Offline Brewski

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #728 on: June 11, 2020, 04:53:03 PM »
I think the mod's note is referring to some very recent  posts that were now deleted because of personal quarelling and attacks. It's got nothing to do with Shostakovich being mentioned, for example; Englund's relations to Shostakovich's music are an often-occurring subject elsewhere too, also scholarly in record liner notes etc.

Correct.

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Online Christo

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #729 on: June 12, 2020, 12:02:38 AM »

Herman Koppel is one of my favourite composers from northern Europe. An exact contemporary of Vagn Holmboe
They were not only contemporaries, but friends; at least that's what Holmboe told me in 1995. One of the composers he admired was 'his old friend' Herman Koppel, in those words.
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #730 on: June 12, 2020, 12:08:44 AM »
They were not only contemporaries, but friends; at least that's what Holmboe told me in 1995. One of the composers he admired was 'his old friend' Herman Koppel, in those words.

Interesting. I don't know if you've mentioned it before, but: how did you meet & what else did he say?

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #731 on: June 12, 2020, 01:02:11 AM »
Interesting. I don't know if you've mentioned it before, but: how did you meet & what else did he say?

'Would you like another gin and tonic Johan?'

 8)
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Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #732 on: June 12, 2020, 01:25:05 AM »
Concerning a perhaps more informal side of Holmboe, I looked a bit for sources. There wasn't any informal content in this interview with Bo Holten from 1976, but I found it interesting enough to link to it. It's in Danish, so maybe use google translate, but:

he says he likes Martinu (which is interesting,since Martinu was rather overlooked here then) besides Britten and Lutoslawski, admiring both a lot; he also likes the symphonies of Roussel, Honegger and V-Williams, for example, and sees Nielsen as a barrier in Denmark against an - alleged - decadence found in later German music, for example; he sees nothing of value in the Darmstadt School. Bartok, Nielsen, Sibelius and Stravinsky influenced him the most, and Haydn as regards the quartets. He also likes late-medieval music, such as the linear features of Estampie and the Conductus, and says that a preference for a linear style comes very natural to him, etc.

https://seismograf.org/dmt/51/04/vagn-holmboe-i-dag

In another interview from 1983 he tells a lot more about his background and private life, including an early interest in yoga (!) and that originally he wanted to be a painter. He also details his un-sentimental interest in nature, shuns the city, and mentions Schubert and Mozart as other major figures for him. He also tells a good deal about music in the 1930s. H.D. Koppel, Franz Syberg, Svend S.Schultz and Svend Erik Tarp were his close friends among composers.
https://seismograf.org/dmt/51/04/vagn-holmboe-i-dag
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 02:19:21 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #733 on: September 08, 2020, 02:39:00 AM »
Copied over from WAYLTN thread:
Erkki Salmenhaara (1941-2002)
Symphony No.4 (1971-2)
Absolutely briliant!
Powerful, moving, inspiriting, tonal. Interesting booklet notes from Kalevi Aho.
A definite recommendation to 'the usual suspects' (those who, more or less, share my musical tastes here).
This one had to come from Finland:


And, here he is - Erkki Salmenhaara.
There is another clue in the photograph as to why his music was likely to appeal to me.  :)




« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 02:47:46 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline krummholz

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #734 on: September 08, 2020, 03:20:40 AM »
My reaction exactly! ::) I love (Carl) Nielsen’s SQs.

Yeah, me too. I would not place them on the same level as his symphonies, and one should remember that the first two are fairly early works and the last one is roughly contemporary with Maskarade and breathes much the same air as the opera. But they are IMO all charming, vital works and the 3rd (E flat), in particular, is very much on a par with Nielsen's other work of that period (e.g. the 2nd Symphony which it preceded by a couple of years) and is IMO quite beautiful, even if the last movement isn't quite up to the standards of the first three. I also confess to loving the 4th as well.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 03:22:13 AM by krummholz »

Offline krummholz

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #735 on: September 08, 2020, 03:26:18 AM »
Concerning a perhaps more informal side of Holmboe, I looked a bit for sources. There wasn't any informal content in this interview with Bo Holten from 1976, but I found it interesting enough to link to it. It's in Danish, so maybe use google translate, but:

he says he likes Martinu (which is interesting,since Martinu was rather overlooked here then) besides Britten and Lutoslawski, admiring both a lot; he also likes the symphonies of Roussel, Honegger and V-Williams, for example, and sees Nielsen as a barrier in Denmark against an - alleged - decadence found in later German music, for example; he sees nothing of value in the Darmstadt School. Bartok, Nielsen, Sibelius and Stravinsky influenced him the most, and Haydn as regards the quartets. He also likes late-medieval music, such as the linear features of Estampie and the Conductus, and says that a preference for a linear style comes very natural to him, etc.

https://seismograf.org/dmt/51/04/vagn-holmboe-i-dag

In another interview from 1983 he tells a lot more about his background and private life, including an early interest in yoga (!) and that originally he wanted to be a painter. He also details his un-sentimental interest in nature, shuns the city, and mentions Schubert and Mozart as other major figures for him. He also tells a good deal about music in the 1930s. H.D. Koppel, Franz Syberg, Svend S.Schultz and Svend Erik Tarp were his close friends among composers.
https://seismograf.org/dmt/51/04/vagn-holmboe-i-dag

Very interesting as Holmboe is one of my very favorite composers (obviously)! Makes me wish I read Danish... is there a translation of that interview anywhere?

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #736 on: September 08, 2020, 03:41:24 AM »
I don't think so, but google translate generally does a good job as regards Danish (and as opposed to say Russian), either by a direct request or by translating isolated, copied parts of the text. There is probably quite a lot of similar Holmboe material out there on the web, via Seismograf and other sources.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #737 on: September 08, 2020, 07:37:28 AM »
There is another clue in the photograph as to why his music was likely to appeal to me.  :)

I suppose it's not the Marlboro box on the table so must be the cat (kissa)!   $:)
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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #738 on: September 08, 2020, 08:01:10 AM »
I suppose it's not the Marlboro box on the table so must be the cat (kissa)!   $:)
Correct!  :) :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Scandinavian and Finnish composers.
« Reply #739 on: September 08, 2020, 12:56:14 PM »
Correct!  :) :)

It was a relatively easy guess. Nothing else in the photo makes sense in this context. Everything except the cat in the photo looks "melancholic."
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Ecclesiastical Secularism"