Scandinavian and Finnish composers.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Okay, okay Colin, I am here! And I am interested! Please go on enlightening me and all the others... I think I am going to download 'Chorali' first.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

The "Postbank" will give you a loan with cheap rates!

The whole BIS catalogue is at eMusic, and my subscription there has been refreshed last weekend (50 tracks). So I don't think I have to take out a loan this time...

Edit: they have Ondine, too.

[Harry]

It is odd that CPO-a company which normally seeks to record works not previously recorded-should be duplicating the earlier BIS recordings of Sallinen's first six symphonies! Never mind-Ari Rasilainen is a good young conductor and his insights are valuable.

Oh....and I should have added-

In my opinion you need both CPO & BIS recordings, and a few others, they are highly complimentary.
CPO was convinced by Rasilainen, that he had something to add, that's why.
And to be fair he has!

[Harry]

Okay, okay Colin, I am here! And I am interested! Please go on enlightening me and all the others... I think I am going to download 'Chorali' first.

O, after that, you will be lost, and want all, o, dear, 50 tracks you say, Hmmmm!

[Harry]

The whole BIS catalogue is at eMusic, and my subscription there has been refreshed last weekend (50 tracks). So I don't think I have to take out a loan this time...

Edit: they have Ondine, too.

Oops yes, I forgot, that you are in the business of downloading these days, well I like cd's, something to hold.
But your method is considerably cheaper of course! Do you store it on your hard disc? I am afraid I am a novice in this respect, and frankly I rather stay that way, its all far to difficult.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

O, after that, you will be lost, and want all, o, dear, 50 tracks you say, Hmmmm!

With several other composers 'on the go' at the same time, 50 tracks isn't a lot. I think I'll have to be very discerning and very frugal...

[Harry]

With several other composers 'on the go' at the same time, 50 tracks isn't a lot. I think I'll have to be very discerning and very frugal...

Good gracious, yes, absolute frugal!

[Dundonnell]

I freely(and happily) admit to being a sucker for so much Nordic music I love the distinctive landscapes of the northern countries-the fjords and mountains of Norway, the forests and lakes of Sweden and Finland. Many composers from these countries seem remarkably attuned to their native landscapes and write music which has a power and eloquence which perfectly evokes both the scenery itself and the emotions experienced by those who live or travel through these countries.

Sibelius is the obvious example-and 'Tapiola' a prime case of the overpowering sense of awe which the deep forests can inspire.
Sallinen seems-to me at least-to have a comparable(though, obviously, lesser) ability to conjure up the nature-world which clearly has inspired him. There are comparisons with the inspiration Benjamin Britten drew from the bleak East Anglian coastline. Sallinen is also inspired by Shostakovich(as many other Finnish composers were too) and by Stravinsky but his music repays the listener in its sense of purpose, sense of movement and power. If one is attuned to that particular sound world one is drawn back to it again.
And...it is accessible music for those(like myself) who find much other contemporary music written by living composers hard to grasp

[kristopaivinen]

Can't agree with you about Kokkonen and Sallinen. I think that both are seriously good composers. Their symphonies and concertos are works to which I often return.

I'm sorry that I lack the ability or will to admire almost every Finnish composer, or to regard each as an universal genius. I'm not ruling out the possibility that Sallinen or Kokkonen are as great as Mozart, Brahms, or Rautavaara, but so far I haven't found many reasons to think so. When I say that Rautavaara is a far greater composer than either, that mostly shows that I appreciate Rautavaara, rather than that I dislike the former.

And sure I sometimes return to Sallinen's symphonies. I also often return to Carl Nielsen's symphonies; they're very enjoyable, but I would trade them all away for one work by Webern.

Sallinen is much more than a 'competent' composer.  Some of his stuff is responsible for my brain doing timeshifts and unworldy travels. He is a composer of considerable skill, and he must have an idea what his music can do to someone innocently trying is music out.  I don't recommend trying it - I recommend getting it, and going to hear it performed.  Sallinen is a real Scandinavian treasure.

I would say all of this about Rautavaara. I would say it about Kuula, and if I was really drunk, I would even say it about Sibelius. How many treasures do you think I expect to find in such a small country?

[Harry]

How many treasures do you think I expect to find in such a small country?

Much, many, a enormous amount, drunk or not!

[Dundonnell]

I'm sorry that I lack the ability or will to admire almost every Finnish composer, or to regard each as an universal genius. I'm not ruling out the possibility that Sallinen or Kokkonen are as great as Mozart, Brahms, or Rautavaara, but so far I haven't found many reasons to think so. When I say that Rautavaara is a far greater composer than either, that mostly shows that I appreciate Rautavaara, rather than that I dislike the former.

And sure I sometimes return to Sallinen's symphonies. I also often return to Carl Nielsen's symphonies; they're very enjoyable, but I would trade them all away for one work by Webern.

I would say all of this about Rautavaara. I would say it about Kuula, and if I was really drunk, I would even say it about Sibelius. How many treasures do you think I expect to find in such a small country?

Oh, I would never dare to equate Sallinen or Kokkonen with Mozart or Brahms! Rautavaara is a very fine composer whose works I love/admire. He is just a rather different composer from Sallinen or Kokkonen but I value all three.

"Trade away all of Carl Nielsen's symphonies for one work by Webern"? Sorry, not with you there!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Just listened to Chorali, a rather elevated and austere work, but with a terrific and very earthy brass explosion.

[kristopaivinen]

Oh, I would never dare to equate Sallinen or Kokkonen with Mozart or Brahms!

Hence, a competent composer. A very competent composer...? An interesting, very accomplished composer...? Regardless of what term we use, the title of a 'great' composer, in my understanding, demands equivalence to that which is admired in Mozart or Brahms, for instance, and I have strong reasons to believe that Rautavaara meets that demand well.

Rautavaara is a very fine composer whose works I love/admire. He is just a rather different composer from Sallinen or Kokkonen but I value all three.

But not especially one of these composers, it seems, like I especially value Rautavaara.

"Trade away all of Carl Nielsen's symphonies for one work by Webern"? Sorry, not with you there!!

This is just an example of how I listen much to some composers and find their music enjoyable, but don't need them like I need some others. I didn't expect you to agree on Carl Nielsen.

[Maciek]

Been a long time since I've last visited this thread, and I see it has grown threefold (at least).

Glad Kriikku is getting some attention. I've seen the guy live several times and have to agree: he is a god!

For those interested, I once posted the Sallinen Cello Sonata here.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

For those interested, I once posted the Sallinen Cello Sonata here.

Thanks, Maciek! This saves me a few tracks at eMusic...

[kristopaivinen]

Aare Merikanto deserves much more exposure. I would like to hear his symphonies. Ondine ought to record more Merikanto.

He composed three. I in B minor 1916, II in A major 1918, and III 1953.

It's been about four years since I've listened to anything from Aarre Merikanto, and back then I only heard his opera Juha, so yesterday I picked up some of his works from the library. When I first heard Juha, I was too young to understand the music, and I still have some difficulties to truly admire works from the same period (the 20s) - some which seems to me like Berlioz with wrong notes. However, I was greatly impressed
by two late works: the Fourth Violin Concerto from 1954, and Genesis from 1956. If I would judge all his late works by these, I would admire him as much as I admire Rautavaara, and more than I admire Sibelius.

Finnish biographers have pointed out that it is difficult to connect Merikanto's style to any other composer. Merikanto, who had studied with Max Reger, first composed in a traditionally romantic style, and his earliest experiments in modern harmony were most strongly influenced by Scrjabin and Debussy. Schoenberg seems to have had a far smaller influence on his style than what I initially suspected. Merikanto didn't possess any sheet music of Schoenberg before 1930, when he acquired the 3rd String Quartet and in writing analyzed it in comparison to the 2nd. He described both Schoenberg and Debussy ironically as "brilliant trash-music" in the 1910s. While his attitude on Schoenberg seems to have changed while he got older, his remarks on Schoenberg were chiefly neutral but never containing praise, so any Schoenberg's potential importance on his music was at least never revealed in writing, and he never publicly acknowledged Berg or Webern. Mahler had no place in his statements, although he did acquire Mahler's 4th symphony. He found Stravinsky interesting at least, although his music doesn't betray much influence of Stravinsky and his 20s neoclassicism. Out of all living composers, Merikanto seems to have expressed most admiration for late-romantic ones, such as Max Reger and Strauss.

Merikanto's outspoken admiration for late-romantic composers does not surprise me, as his music remains rhythmically and melodically very similar to this idiom throughout his carreer. An exception is made in the late 20s works, where I find the melody, like the entire music, bears great similarity to Berg's Three Pieces for Orchestra. Otherwise, Merikanto's music is filled with romantically tonal melodies. This characteristic is strongly contrasted by the atonal harmonies, which his accompaniment mainly consists of, bearing much similarity to Schoenberg's harmonies. If this harmonic property was not produced by Merikanto's familiarity with Schoenberg's music, it must have been a coincidence. These characteristics of Merikanto's music were further brought out towards the later stages of his life. The violin part of the Fourth Violin Concerto could almost have been written by Sibelius or Nielsen, although the harmony of the accompaniment consists mainly of chords such as those found in Schoenberg's Violin Concerto. I thought this contrast sounded very strange at first experience. Imagine what Sibelius Violin Concerto would sound if the orchestra would have lots of C6-9 chords to play. This new exploration of Aarre Merikanto's music convinces me that he was much more than just an obsessive cigar-smoker who befittingly died of lung cancer - his value as a composer is expressed in his first name, which translates to "treasure" in English.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Thank you for that exhaustive exposé, kristopaivinen!

[Dundonnell]

I have Merikanto's Piano Concertos Nos. 2 and 3 and Violin Concertos Nos. 2 and 4 in my collection. That leaves the first Piano Concerto, the first Violin Concerto(No.3 was destroyed) and the two Cello Concertos-as well as the three symphonies which have not been recorded. Will listen again to Violin Concerto No.4 in particular.

Will also go back to the shorter works. I remember that the Fantasia for Orchestra, "Pan" and the Symphonic Study(all three of which are on an old Finlandia 'Meet the Composer' CD were highly rated by commentators as radical masterpieces from the 1920s.

[kristopaivinen]

I have Merikanto's Piano Concertos Nos. 2 and 3 and Violin Concertos Nos. 2 and 4 in my collection. That leaves the first Piano Concerto, the first Violin Concerto(No.3 was destroyed) and the two Cello Concertos-as well as the three symphonies which have not been recorded. Will listen again to Violin Concerto No.4 in particular.

Will also go back to the shorter works. I remember that the Fantasia for Orchestra, "Pan" and the Symphonic Study(all three of which are on an old Finlandia 'Meet the Composer' CD were highly rated by commentators as radical masterpieces from the 1920s.

I also have the 'Meet the Composer' CD. Both Violin Concertos are lovely, especially the Fourth one. I'm not familiar with the other concertos.

According to the thick biography about Merikanto I read, conductor-composer Robert Kajanus was quite a prick. Around 1910, when Aarre Merikanto had decided to follow his father's footsteps and become a composer, Kajanus, hostile towards his lowly origins, said to him "You are just a shit and will embarrass yourself next to Sibelius". Not a very encouraging beginning to a carreer. Despite this, Kajanus oddly would remain a supporter and some sort of friend with the Merikanto family.

[Dundonnell]

Anybody ever heard of Eero Hameenniemi(born 1951)?

I have just bought the Alba CD of his Symphony No.3 and Viola Concerto-

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2008/May08/hameenniemi_ABCD214.htm

Will report back when I have listened to the CD.