Scandinavian and Finnish composers.

[vandermolen]

Difficult question to answer without knowing what you are already familiar with. From your previous posts I see that you are a Pettersson admirer and you also have mentioned Atterberg and Rangstrom.

Have you explored the five symphonies of Wilhelm Peterson-Berger or the five of Hugo Alfven? If you like Atterberg and Rangstrom then these should appeal as well-lush, romantic, nationalist Swedish music.

Amongst the (slightly) more modern Swedish composers I like Gosta Nystroem, Dag Wiren and Karl-Biger Blomdahl.

Finns? Kokkonen, Englund and Sallinen. If you like Shostakovich then these composers would be riight up your street
Norwegians-Saeverud(craggy, individualistic)
Danes-Holmboe(one of the greatest of all 20th century composers in my opinion).

I'd very much agree with Colin's recommendations. Although not exactly scandinavian do you know the first two symphonies by the New Zealand composer Douglas Lilburn?  A strong recommendation.

[The new erato]

Let me plug the string quartets of Wiren again. Very fine and entertaining works.

[vandermolen]

Let me plug the string quartets of Wiren again. Very fine and entertaining works.

Thanks for this. I enjoy the Wiren symphonies, especially 3 and 4 and will look out for the SQs.

[Dundonnell]

I was going to say..."How could I forget Hilding Rosenberg?"

and then I remembered that almost everybody else has as well!

[vandermolen]

I was going to say..."How could I forget Hilding Rosenberg?"

and then I remembered that almost everybody else has as well!

His Third and Second Symphony are two favourites of mine. They both have wonderfully inspiriting and moving endings; strongly recommended.

[Sef]

I'd very much agree with Colin's recommendations. Although not exactly scandinavian do you know the first two symphonies by the New Zealand composer Douglas Lilburn?  A strong recommendation.

What do you mean - "Not exactly Scandinavian"? Not Scandinavian at all! Hey I'm open to all suggestions, just thought I'd limit it to our Northern friends for the sake of this thread. For information I loved the Atterberg box set (particularly 2, 3-who doesn't- and 6), and the Rangstrom box - and yes, "lush" is a great description. Sibelius of course, particularly 2, 4, 5, Lemminkainen. Pettersson 6,7 and 8 wrench at your guts. Recently been listening to Chavez complete symphonies (particularly 2 and 4), Saygun (love 1 and 3). Shostakovich or course (4's my favourite, and the SQs). Only heard Alfven 4. Quite liked Langgaard 4,5 and 6. Is this enough?

[The new erato]

What do you mean - "Not exactly Scandinavian"? Not Scandinavian at all! Hey I'm open to all suggestions, just thought I'd limit it to our Northern friends for the sake of this thread. For information I loved the Atterberg box set (particularly 2, 3-who doesn't- and 6), and the Rangstrom box - and yes, "lush" is a great description. Sibelius of course, particularly 2, 4, 5, Lemminkainen. Pettersson 6,7 and 8 wrench at your guts. Recently been listening to Chavez complete symphonies (particularly 2 and 4), Saygun (love 1 and 3). Shostakovich or course (4's my favourite, and the SQs). Only heard Alfven 4. Quite liked Langgaard 4,5 and 6. Is this enough?

No. Nielsen is necessary.Just listened to the Naxos/Schønwandt disc of his 3rd symphony. Totally awesome.

[Christo]

What do you mean - "Not exactly Scandinavian"? Not Scandinavian at all! Hey I'm open to all suggestions, just thought I'd limit it to our Northern friends for the sake of this thread. For information I loved the Atterberg box set (particularly 2, 3-who doesn't- and 6), and the Rangstrom box - and yes, "lush" is a great description. Sibelius of course, particularly 2, 4, 5, Lemminkainen. Pettersson 6,7 and 8 wrench at your guts. Recently been listening to Chavez complete symphonies (particularly 2 and 4), Saygun (love 1 and 3). Shostakovich or course (4's my favourite, and the SQs). Only heard Alfven 4. Quite liked Langgaard 4,5 and 6. Is this enough?

Not enough, but just great! Anyhow: if you don't accept Lilburn in this row (but I agree with Jeffrey that both he and e.g. Hanson could be considered ''''Scandinavians'''' as well), you would perhaps accept Estonians and Latvians. Do you happen to know Tubin's cycle? His ten symphonies are one of the best symphonic cycles that I know and would nicely fit in your list. 

As far as I'm concerned, the same applies to Vagn Holmboe. Personally, I would prefer both to all these Swedish symphonists (Rangstroem, Alfvén, Nystroem, Wirén, Rosenberg, Petterson including). And there's a (Swedish) Finn too that I prefer above most of these: Einar Englund.

[vandermolen]

What do you mean - "Not exactly Scandinavian"? Not Scandinavian at all! Hey I'm open to all suggestions, just thought I'd limit it to our Northern friends for the sake of this thread. For information I loved the Atterberg box set (particularly 2, 3-who doesn't- and 6), and the Rangstrom box - and yes, "lush" is a great description. Sibelius of course, particularly 2, 4, 5, Lemminkainen. Pettersson 6,7 and 8 wrench at your guts. Recently been listening to Chavez complete symphonies (particularly 2 and 4), Saygun (love 1 and 3). Shostakovich or course (4's my favourite, and the SQs). Only heard Alfven 4. Quite liked Langgaard 4,5 and 6. Is this enough?

You mean to tell me that New Zealand is not part of Scandinavia?

I like your choices very much and agree with Christo if you don't know the Tubin symphonies try 1,2,4,5 and 10 (but they are all great). As for a genuine scandinavian try Klaus Egge Symphony 1, Piano Concerto No 2 (Naxos) and String Quartet (Naxos too).

[Sef]

Thanks for all the great suggestions - let's see how far that $5 voucher gets me!

[Christo]

if you don't know the Tubin symphonies try 1,2,4,5 and 10 (but they are all great)

Exactly. A proof might be, that my Tubin favourites are: nos. 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.  Which means, that the two of us combined are in favour of all ten symphonies - enough proof for me of a really special symphonic cycle. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

All that suggestive Tubin talk inspires me to listen to his symphonies again...

[Lilas Pastia]

Not enough, but just great! Anyhow: if you don't accept Lilburn in this row (but I agree with Jeffrey that both he and e.g. Hanson could be considered ''''Scandinavians'''' as well), you would perhaps accept Estonians and Latvians. Do you happen to know Tubin's cycle? His ten symphonies are one of the best symphonic cycles that I know and would nicely fit in your list. 

As far as I'm concerned, the same applies to Vagn Holmboe. Personally, I would prefer both to all these Swedish symphonists (Rangstroem, Alfvén, Nystroem, Wirén, Rosenberg, Petterson including). And there's a (Swedish) Finn too that I prefer above most of these: Einar Englund.

I'm a great fan of scandinavian symphonists, and, apart from Finland, only Sweden and Denmark can be talked to in the same breath in terms of being hailed as fertile symphonic ground. Although I agree about Holmboe's status, I'd add Langgaard and Koppel as main proponents of the 'classic' ('nielsenesque') school of symphony. BUT - it's my firm belief that "all those swedish symphonists" present a very different and just as valuable musical language as the Danes'. For one thing, there is a striking difference between the slightly angular, direct language of the Danes vs the more oblique, discursive, curvaceous one of the Swedes.  I don't think one can be termed better, although the distinction between the two is not a fiction. Preferring one to the other is perfectly legitimate, though !

[The new erato]

I'm a great fan of scandinavian symphonists, and, apart from Finland, only Sweden and Denmark can be talked to in the same breath in terms of being hailed as fertile symphonic ground. Although I agree about Holmboe's status, I'd add Langgaard and Koppel as main proponents of the 'classic' ('nielsenesque') school of symphony. BUT - it's my firm belief that "all those swedish symphonists" present a very different and just as valuable musical language as the Danes'. For one thing, there is a striking difference between the slightly angular, direct language of the Danes vs the more oblique, discursive, curvaceous one of the Swedes.  I don't think one can be termed better, although the distinction between the two is not a fiction. Preferring one to the other is perfectly legitimate, though !

Yes, Koppel has been on my "to explore" list for far too long. Particular works recommended as starting points? Anyone?

[vandermolen]

Yes, Koppel has been on my "to explore" list for far too long. Particular works recommended as starting points? Anyone?

Yes, Symphony No 2. Great work.

[Dundonnell]

I'm a great fan of scandinavian symphonists, and, apart from Finland, only Sweden and Denmark can be talked to in the same breath in terms of being hailed as fertile symphonic ground. Although I agree about Holmboe's status, I'd add Langgaard and Koppel as main proponents of the 'classic' ('nielsenesque') school of symphony. BUT - it's my firm belief that "all those swedish symphonists" present a very different and just as valuable musical language as the Danes'. For one thing, there is a striking difference between the slightly angular, direct language of the Danes vs the more oblique, discursive, curvaceous one of the Swedes.  I don't think one can be termed better, although the distinction between the two is not a fiction. Preferring one to the other is perfectly legitimate, though !

I gather from what you are saying that you don't think that Norway can be regarded as "fertile symphonic ground"? I don't necessarily disagree with an assessment that Norway has not produced a symphonist to rank as highly as Sibelius, Nielsen or Holmboe but I would regard Saeverud's symphonies as well up in a second division of composers.

I do agree about the differences and distinctions between the language of the Danes compared to that of the Swedes. Regarding Danish composers however, I would also rank Niels Viggo Bentzon-at least in his earlier symphonies(I haven't heard all of the 24!)-as a symphonist of very considerable substance. The symphonies I have heard-Nos. 3, 4, 5, 7 and 8-are impressive works, every bit as fine as Koppel's in my opinion.

I am afraid that I am not sold on Langgaard and feel that his posthumous reputation is inflated! I know that many disagree with me though

[The new erato]

I am afraid that I am not sold on Langgaard and feel that his posthumous reputation is inflated! I know that many disagree with me though

Langgaard is so variable that  a general opinion on his work is difficult to arrive at.

Anybody heard the best symphony written in Norway? Finn Mortensens sole example.

[Dundonnell]

Langgaard is so variable that  a general opiniomn on his work is difficlt to arrive at.

Anybody heard the best sympjhony written in Norway? Finn Mortensens sole example.

Your wish...etc etc!

I am listening to it again right now! I have far too many cds!!

[The new erato]

Your wish...etc etc!

I am listening to it again right now! I have far too many cds!!

I only have it on a cassette somewhere. Anyway it's a quite old recording, I wish for a new one.

Grovens symphonies on BIS are very enjoyable.

[Dundonnell]

The Mortensen IS magnificent! It can't be THAT old-Oslo Philharmonic under Mariss Jansons. I see what the author of the booklet notes means when he talks about the influence of Bruckner. Composed in 1952-53, not performed until 1963, a further performance in 1976 and another in 1982, the symphony is not however typical of Mortensen's later work which reflects the influences of twelve-tone music and aleatoric music.

Yes, I like the Groven symphonies- No.1 on BIS, No.2 on Simax; and Groven's big choral work 'Draumkvaedet' on Aurora. I would like to see Ludvig Irgens Jensen get more exposure too. Saraste promised to record some Jensen but it hasn't happened yet.