Scandinavian and Finnish composers.

[The new erato]

Mortensen's got a  very fine, tonal, wind quintet as well.

[Dundonnell]

Mortensen's got a  very fine, tonal, wind quintet as well.

It's on the same cd as the symphony.

[Dundonnell]

Thanks for mentioning the Mortensen symphony

This is why I love this forum! Goodness knows how long it would have been before I picked that cd back off my shelves. Indeed I had to check to see if I had actually got it

[Lethevich]

I would like to see Ludvig Irgens Jensen get more exposure too. Saraste promised to record some Jensen but it hasn't happened yet.

He is good, indeedie - I have the disc containing his Japanese song cycle and misc orchestral works on Simax, and the passacaglia was rather memorable.

BTW, it's very weird that Mortensen and Irgens Jensen were brought up here at the same time - I grabbed a dubiously legal torrent from Demonoid a few weeks ago of Mortensen's symphony no.1 and an Irgens Jensen symphony of some type which wasn't very well described by the uploader. I found both well worth returning to, and it put Mortensen on my radar for the first time.

[Dundonnell]

He is good, indeedie - I have the disc containing his Japanese song cycle and misc orchestral works on Simax, and the passacaglia was rather memorable.

BTW, it's very weird that Mortensen and Irgens Jensen were brought up here at the same time - I grabbed a dubiously legal torrent from Demonoid a few weeks ago of Mortensen's symphony no.1 and an Irgens Jensen symphony of some type which wasn't very well described by the uploader. I found both well worth returning to, and it put Mortensen on my radar for the first time.

If you have the Simax disc with the 'Japanischer Fruhling' then the couplings are the 'Tema con Vaiazioni' for orchestra and the Sinfonia in D  minor(Re). The other Jensen discs I have are an NIM disc with the Passacaglia for orchestra, the Partita Sinfonica and the Violin Sonata and a Simax disc boxed set of the huge Choral Symphony 'Heimferd'. Jensen did not write any other symphonic works as far as I am aware.

[Lethevich]

If you have the Simax disc with the 'Japanischer Fruhling' then the couplings are the 'Tema con Vaiazioni' for orchestra and the Sinfonia in D  minor(Re). The other Jensen discs I have are an NIM disc with the Passacaglia for orchestra, the Partita Sinfonica and the Violin Sonata and a Simax disc boxed set of the huge Choral Symphony 'Heimferd'. Jensen did not write any other symphonic works as far as I am aware.

Hmm, odd. My Simax disc lists on the rear:

Japanischer Frühling (25'38) [9 indexes]
Passacaglia (20'02)
Pastorale religioso (5'58)
Canto d'omaggio (12'17)

[Dundonnell]

Ah.....now I recall, Simax reissued with a different coupling! You have the reissue.

In THAT case the work you 'obtained' WILL be the Symphony in D minor, the work which won the prize in 1943 in the clandestine competition held to mark the 25th anniversary of the Norwegian Society of Composers.

[Dundonnell]

I have just had an email from MDT cancelling my order for the new Simax disc of music by the Norwegian composer, Condrad Baden-including his Piano Concerto.

Apparently the British distributor of Simax discs has gone bankrupt! Curses!

[Lilas Pastia]

I gather from what you are saying that you don't think that Norway can be regarded as "fertile symphonic ground"? I don't necessarily disagree with an assessment that Norway has not produced a symphonist to rank as highly as Sibelius, Nielsen or Holmboe but I would regard Saeverud's symphonies as well up in a second division of composers.

Agreed (re: Saeverud). But although there have been a few good to great norwegian symphonists, the *fertility* factor does not seem as prevalent as in its immediate neighbours. Never heard of Mortensen before, though. Sounds interesting...

[Christo]

Anybody heard the best symphony written in Norway? Finn Mortensens sole example.

The best Norwegian symphony .... and I missed it ! 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Agreed (re: Saeverud). But although there have been a few good to great norwegian symphonists, the *fertility* factor does not seem as prevalent as in its immediate neighbours. Never heard of Mortensen before, though. Sounds interesting...

I think the reason is historic - both Denmark and Sweden have been confident states for many centuries, whereas Norway became a sovereign nation only in 1905. Think of the court cultures that fostered musical talent.

[Christo]

I think the reason is historic - both Denmark and Sweden have been confident states for many centuries, whereas Norway became a sovereign nation only in 1905. Think of the court cultures that fostered musical talent.

There is a point in that. The 'confidence' is often symbolized by a monarchy, a mediator of unity, identity and historical continuity often not well understood by the poor inhabitants of all those poor republics. 

But Finland and the other Baltic countries (in my classification, Latvia, Estonia and Finland form the three Baltic countries, Lithuania belongs to Central Europe  ) only became independent states, and indeed nations in many respects, around WWI. It didn't prevent them from producing Sibelius, Tubin, Englund, Rautavaara, Aho .. Especially Finland can be regarded the music academy of Europe - but the nation doesn't fit in your "centuries old confident state" model. 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

There is a point in that. The 'confidence' is often symbolized by a monarchy, a mediator of unity, identity and historical continuity often not well understood by the poor inhabitants of all those poor republics. 

But Finland and the other Baltic countries (in my classification, Latvia, Estonia and Finland form the three Baltic countries, Lithuania belongs to Central Europe  ) only became independent states, and indeed nations in many respects, around WWI. It didn't prevent them from producing Sibelius, Tubin, Englund, Rautavaara, Aho .. Especially Finland can be regarded the music academy of Europe - but the nation doesn't fit in your "centuries old confident state" model. 

Hm, then we'll have to dig deeper... Let's agree there must be a climate conducive to the production of great music. A stable state is or can be one condition. And you must have the 'intellectual infrastructure' (good education system, publishers, conservatories et cetera).

[Christo]

Hm, then we'll have to dig deeper... Let's agree there must be a climate conducive to the production of great music. A stable state is or can be one condition. And you must have the 'intellectual infrastructure' (good education system, publishers, conservatories et cetera).

In that case, most of Europe in the past century wouldn't have produced much of a symphonist. At least no Russians, no Belgians, no Ukrainians, no Poles, no Hungarians, no Germans, no ...   

Your theory helps explain the absense of a major American symphonist, however. 

[vandermolen]

Exactly. A proof might be, that my Tubin favourites are: nos. 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.  Which means, that the two of us combined are in favour of all ten symphonies - enough proof for me of a really special symphonic cycle. 

Yes, they are all good. Your post has encouraged me to listen again to 7,8 and 9 which I know less well. Robert Layton considers No 8 his masterpiece.

[vandermolen]

Mortensen's got a  very fine, tonal, wind quintet as well.

I must investigate this composer, especially as I enjoyed his performance as Aragorn in the Lord of The Rings movies so much 

[vandermolen]

This thread has encouraged me to listen to a CD I have had for ages but hardly listened to. Niels Viggo Bentzon symphonies 3 and 4. No 3 is a wonderful work, with a real feel for nature. In fact I have been playing this work so much that I have not got round to No 4 yet. I gather that Bentzon's music is rather uneven in quality (unlike Tubin for example) but Symphony No 3 is a fine work.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

In that case, most of Europe in the past century wouldn't have produced much of a symphonist. At least no Russians, no Belgians, no Ukrainians, no Poles, no Hungarians, no Germans, no ...   

Your theory helps explain the absence of a major American symphonist, however. 

Cheeky!

'Stable' wasn't the best word to use, I guess... This is a large subject, and you'd have to look at the history of every separate nation to see how its musical life was/is organised, which I won't be doing... 

I must investigate this composer, especially as I enjoyed his performance as Aragorn in the Lord of The Rings movies so much 

Yes, the guy is enormously versatile.

[Christo]

Cheeky!

'Stable' wasn't the best word to use, I guess... This is a large subject, and you'd have to look at the history of every separate nation to see how its musical life was/is organised, which I won't be doing... 

Oh, but I do agree with you that `historical conditions' play a big role in the creation of great symphonic cycles. To exactly define the nature of these conditions is quite a task, however, as they would include many contradictions. You're wise not to try. 

[vandermolen]

Joonas Kokkonen's Fourth Symphony has a searching, visionary quality to it which I find very appealing; one of my favourite 'modern' symphonies.