Spare a Tier for the Composers

[Madiel]

It's like no-one reads the OP any more...

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Lol, maybe people just find it really hard to think of 12 composers....that's a frighteningly small number of favourites for me!

[jlaurson]

Really? OK.

Edit: Really? No one? Tier? Animal?   


Elephant.)  B  A  C  H

_____Fox.)  M o z a r t | W a g n e r | B r u c k n e r
            H a y d n | B e e t h o v e n | R. S t r a u s s
            S i b e l i u s | H a r t m a n n | S c a r l a t t i

____Duck.)  Janacek | Bartok | Schubert
            Braunfels | Weinberg | Diamond
            Schulhoff | Mahler | Langgaard

[Madiel]

Lol, maybe people just find it really hard to think of 12 composers....that's a frighteningly small number of favourites for me!

Yeah, it is. But that's kind of the point, to concentrate the mind and force you to choose rather than just rattle off everything you like.

There's never going to be a perfect or 'correct' answer here, but it's an exercise in working out what you appreciate the most. Not just what you appreciate. It's no different to any other things like this that requires you to fit in parameters. Desert Island Discs or whatever.

[Florestan]

Okay, here are my tiers according to the OP specifications (ordering is chronological).

1st: Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert
2nd: Chopin, Schumann, Liszt, Brahms
3rd: Bach, Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff

PREEMPTIVE EDIT ('cause I see something by someone coming speedily and heavily my way... ): I do not claim these are the best composers ever; I do not claim they are objectively, demonstrably better than others. They are simply the ones to whom I return to most often, the ones from whose music I derive the most pleasurable, enjoyable and meaningful experiences and the ones whose music touches my soul and intellect in the most direct and effective manner. In short, my tiers represent my highly subjective and individual experience, just like the tiers of others (or the lack thereof... ) represent their highly subjective and individual experiences. And I am not going to argue about them, or about that.

[Brahmsian]

It's like no-one reads the OP any more...

[some guy]

I see something by someone coming speedily and heavily my way... ):

You have a very vivid imagination.

Either that or are simply hallucinating.

[amw]

Lol, maybe people just find it really hard to think of 12 composers....that's a frighteningly small number of favourites for me!

Tbh no, it's easy to choose the composers that have been most influential and important for you across your life (even only 3 or 4 of them) and to put them in "tiers" by importance. I could do it practically without thinking. But what's the point?

Like
Tier 1: Beethoven, Schumann, Schubert, Bartók
Tier 2: Brahms, Bach, Chopin, Dvořák
Tier 3: Cage, Stravinsky, Berio, Ligeti

Tier 1 for the composers of greatest and longest-standing interest, Tier 2 for the composers of equally long-standing interest whom it took me longer to bring up to first-class status, Tier 3 for the more recently discovered composers of greatest impact. Or as a composer: Tier 1 for the ones who created my fundamental views of music; Tier 2 for the ones who created my sense of form and inevitability; Tier 3 for the ones who created my sense of style. And yeah, in Tiers 2 and 3 I'm definitely leaving some out that could have been there, but so what? It's easy to judge which ones have been most impactful objectively rather than which ones I simply like the most.

And what does that tell you about me? Or any of those composers? Anything valuable? I doubt it. Indeed it even gives the misleading impression that everyone in a "tier" is comparable when in fact I relate to all of them differently. (And so does everyone.)

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Tbh no, it's easy to choose the composers that have been most influential and important for you across your life (even only 3 or 4 of them) and to put them in "tiers" by importance. I could do it practically without thinking. But what's the point?

Like
Tier 1: Beethoven, Schumann, Schubert, Bartók
Tier 2: Brahms, Bach, Chopin, Dvořák
Tier 3: Cage, Stravinsky, Berio, Ligeti

Tier 1 for the composers of greatest and longest-standing interest, Tier 2 for the composers of equally long-standing interest whom it took me longer to bring up to first-class status, Tier 3 for the more recently discovered composers of greatest impact. Or as a composer: Tier 1 for the ones who created my fundamental views of music; Tier 2 for the ones who created my sense of form and inevitability; Tier 3 for the ones who created my sense of style. And yeah, in Tiers 2 and 3 I'm definitely leaving some out that could have been there, but so what? It's easy to judge which ones have been most impactful objectively rather than which ones I simply like the most.

And what does that tell you about me? Or any of those composers? Anything valuable? I doubt it. Indeed it even gives the misleading impression that everyone in a "tier" is comparable when in fact I relate to all of them differently. (And so does everyone.)

Ah okay I get what you're saying.

I'm used to being very interested in a lot of music, and my interests change rapidly and they influence me in very different ways all the time.....I think individual pieces of music influenced me much more than the output of various composers. Beethoven's 5th symphony, Pateras's Chromatophore, Ligeti's Chamber Concerto, Schoenberg's A Survivor from Warsaw, Cage's sonatas and interludes for prepared piano, Glass's Einstein on the Beach,Bach's Orchestral Suite no. 3, Brett Dean's Bliss and Mozart's Horn Concerto no. 1 all influenced me greatly and in hugely different ways when I was first discovering classical music. Each piece means something very different to me and it would be difficult to classify them in any kind of tier(s) because of the circumstances surrounding my discovery of those works. I can certainly say that I love those works and many of the other works from all of those composers............but that's the only way I can link them all together.

[Madiel]

And what does that tell you about me? Or any of those composers? Anything valuable? I doubt it.

The valuable thing it tells me is something about your preferences, which is then relevant to your comments about pieces of music in other threads.

For example, if ComposerOfAvantGarde raved about music that was from earlier than the 20th century, it would really get my attention. Why? Because I'm already pretty familiar with the fact that most of his favourite music is not earlier than the 20th century.

There were two film reviewers in Australia who became something of an institution over a period of many years, and knowing their general likes and dislikes was an important factor in knowing whether I was likely to respond to a reviewed movie in the same way that they did. Each one of them had certain characteristics that would tend to lower or raise the score of the movie, and some of those things would be stuff I cared about, and some of it wouldn't.

[some guy]

Pateras's Chromatophore

Wow, sweet piece. One of those "first notes immediately draw you in" kinds of pieces.

Wait. Are there other kinds?

Anyway, I remember hearing some Pateras years ago but don't remember anything about it.

So now I'm on his site, listening to the Chromatophore clip. Next is Mutant Theatre, for for solo percussion, radios, toys and cheap electronics.

Oh this is fun!

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

The valuable thing it tells me is something about your preferences, which is then relevant to your comments about pieces of music in other threads.

For example, if ComposerOfAvantGarde raved about music that was from earlier than the 20th century, it would really get my attention. Why? Because I'm already pretty familiar with the fact that most of his favourite music is not earlier than the 20th century.

I don't wish to contradict you....but it seems as if you are making false assumptions of me based on my current listening habits.....I believe I've stated in one of my very first poste that I like to binge on opera from time to time, especially baroque and romantic repertoire? I've only really been passionate about classical music for a little over ten years and I've been a member here for only a few months.......I doubt you know what my favourite Beatles album is or for how long I've been a big fan of Kaizers Orchestra, or what my favourite operas by Mozart, Vivaldi and Bellini are, or my current favourite Handel oratorio or Haydn symphony or Gesualdo madrigal or Giuliani concerto or Dowland Fantasia etc etc etc

Sorry, I shouldn't be feeling like I have to be defensive about such a tiny misunderstanding as that, but that's just what it is really. I try not to make assumptions about anyone based on preconceived expectations.

[Madiel]

Shrug. I'm hardly claiming intimate knowledge of your every thought.  How many years of your membership here before I can claim to know you? Alternatively, when can I move in?

EDIT: The point was about the pattern of your posts, not about your entire life story. I'm not claiming to know anything about you beyond what you write. Am I making a false assumption about your posting?

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Wow, sweet piece. One of those "first notes immediately draw you in" kinds of pieces.

Wait. Are there other kinds?

Anyway, I remember hearing some Pateras years ago but don't remember anything about it.

So now I'm on his site, listening to the Chromatophore clip. Next is Mutant Theatre, for for solo percussion, radios, toys and cheap electronics.

Oh this is fun!

Yeah it's a good one.

I first came into contact with the music of Anthony Pateras when I was 12........students from the Australian National Academy of Music were playing his music in a concert that also featured some bagatelles for solo piano by Keith Humble, a piece for string quartet by Neil Kelly as well as presentations of some very early experiments in electroacoustic music. This piece I feel resonated with me most because of how I was feeling personally about perhaps wanting to take composition as a career later down the track........it was a real ear opener at that time for me, and helped me out of a period of writers block by making me realise that if I really wanted to I could try to write something that is completely myself rather than 3rd rate Mozart, Vivaldi, Tchaikovsky etc.

Also, Pateras's electroacoustic collaborations with Robin Fox are some of my current favourites of his stuff, never used to like it until I got into electroacoustic music last year.

[Mirror Image]

I'm going to take this thread seriously now....

Tier 1: Boulez, Brett Dean, Ligeti, Pintscher
Tier 2: Debussy, Helen Grime, Pateras, Coates
Tier 3: Webern, Dutilleux, Berg, Schoenberg

Coates? Really? You must tell me about this composer, Jessop. I've heard her name plenty of times, but what work do you recommend I try first?

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Coates? Really? You must tell me about this composer, Jessop. I've heard her name plenty of times, but what work do you recommend I try first?

I started off on Symphony no. 14, but if you'd like a try of her style on a smaller scale there's the last movement of her string quartet no. 5 where you get all of her typical canonic structures, microtones, glissandi etc. and the Lyric Suite shows her interest in microtonal music in a very different way....I was in for a surprise hearing that work which was not what I expected. Criticisms of her music have been rooted in the fallacy that all her music sounds like the same glissandi all the time.

[James]

Tier 1: BACH
Tier 2: Wagner, Fauré, Bartók
Tier 3: Debussy, Ravel, Stravinsky, Webern

[Mirror Image]

I started off on Symphony no. 14, but if you'd like a try of her style on a smaller scale there's the last movement of her string quartet no. 5 where you get all of her typical canonic structures, microtones, glissandi etc. and the Lyric Suite shows her interest in microtonal music in a very different way....I was in for a surprise hearing that work which was not what I expected. Criticisms of her music have been rooted in the fallacy that all her music sounds like the same glissandi all the time.

Well, following your recommendation, I listened to a bit of Coates' Symphony No. 14. I don't mind her experimenting and making music with microtones, but, I've heard far more convincing music made with this kind of approach than Coates. Scelsi springs immediately to mind as does Ligeti.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Well, no music is for everyone I suppose.

[Karl Henning]

Well, no music is for everyone I suppose.

http://www.youtube.com/v/wlR0KElxxVg