Handel Messiah - versions and performances

[Stein Arne Jensen]

WHICH VERSIONS?

I've always been a nutcase for chronology.

Dunedun Consort/Butt and Christie (1994) has recorded the 1742 Dublin version
Marriners old 1976 recording uses the 1743 London version
Suzuki the 1753 Covent Garden version
McCreesh the 1754  Fundling Hospital version

I'm considering buying the old Gardiner and Pinnock Arkiv recordings.
Does someone know which performances they are based on or if they're simply using the 1901 Chrysander edition?

... and do you know how many different versions there are in total - and if the Chrysander edition is based on one performance - then which?

Please let me know if this post is in the wrong part of the forum!

Stein

[mc ukrneal]

According to wiki there are four editions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_(Handel)#Editions with the Chrysander being a reference only.

PS: And welcome to the forum!

[Stein Arne Jensen]

Thanks mc ukrneal!

So you don't know anything about the the Gardiner and Pinnock recordings on DG Arkiv?

PS: Thanks 

Stein

[Jo498]

I cannot help with Gardiner and Pinnock. Of the ones you mention I have Marriner and McCreesh. And I am not so familiar with the differences between all those versions. One needs two sopranos etc. But I thought that many recordings actually use some "hybrid" version, e.g. to need only one soprano and one alto solo singer etc. So if it does not say on the box "Dublin version" "Foundling hospital" etc. it seems likely that it is a hybrid?

Because Handel changed little things for almost every new performance there is no definitive version and I think performers are free to create their own hybrids...

[king ubu]

My favourite version is Christie's (the others I've heard so far are Hogwood, Pinnock and McCreesh) - here's some information about his version (it's a hybrid):

As Donald Burrows remarks in his accompanying essay, one of two included in the booklet, Christie's performance generally follows a pattern of the work close to that which Handel seems to have adhered to from the mid-1740s, thus incorporating the chorus, ''Their sound is gone out into all lands'' (Part 2). Additionally, Christie uses the later versions of the arias ''But who may abide the day of his coming'' (Part 1), and ''Thou art gone up on high'' (Part 2), for alto and soprano, respectively.

source: http://www.gramophone.co.uk/review/handel-messiah-11

[mc ukrneal]

Thanks mc ukrneal!

So you don't know anything about the the Gardiner and Pinnock recordings on DG Arkiv?

PS: Thanks 

Stein

Sorry, I don't know those versions.

[Stein Arne Jensen]

Thanks king ubu. I will definitely check up the Christie version too.
It would have been nice if Itunes had it, though. I find their 90 second pre-listen cuts so much more informative than the 30 seconds from many other retailers. I heard an Andreas Scholl aria, presumably from the Christie recording that sounded great.

Getting rid of all my classical CDs and only buying new music as downloads it is a shame that so many of these comes without any booklet.
I checked now both the Pinnock (which is from Phillips, not Arkiv as I wrote) and Gardiner - no booklets with the music - no matter FLAC or MP3 

Off topic: Hyperion Records have digital booklets for most, if not all, of their CDs available for download - you can even read the booklet online or download it without even buying the music!!

Could someone who have Pinnock or Gardiner on CD be bothered to read through the booklets for information on version, please?

Thanks

Stein

[mc ukrneal]

Thanks king ubu. I will definitely check up the Christie version too.
It would have been nice if Itunes had it, though. I find their 90 second pre-listen cuts so much more informative than the 30 seconds from many other retailers. I heard an Andreas Scholl aria, presumably from the Christie recording that sounded great.

Getting rid of all my classical CDs and only buying new music as downloads it is a shame that so many of these comes without any booklet.
I checked now both the Pinnock (which is from Phillips, not Arkiv as I wrote) and Gardiner - no booklets with the music - no matter FLAC or MP3 

Off topic: Hyperion Records have digital booklets for most, if not all, of their CDs available for download - you can even read the booklet online or download it without even buying the music!!

Could someone who have Pinnock or Gardiner on CD be bothered to read through the booklets for information on version, please?

Thanks

Stein

There is another Messiah thread, in the Opera/Choral section I think, where they talk about it generally, but perhaps posting there would yield more results? Worth a try...

[kishnevi]

Gardiner picked the version of each movement which sounded best to him:  this turned out to be mostly versions from 1750s London performances, but not entirely, and he did not aim to produce a recording of any specific Handel performance.

So call it hybrid.

As Jo said, there are as many versions as performances directed by Handel:  he was always retooling to fit his music to the musicians at hand.

[king ubu]

just stumbled over this here:
http://messiah-guide.com/index.html

[North Star]

As Jo said, there are as many versions as performances directed by Handel:  he was always retooling to fit his music to the musicians at hand.

Or more - there's the Mozart arrangement.

[Jo498]

Or more - there's the Mozart arrangement.

and Goosens/Beecham or whoever took part in the 20th century arrangements (basically with full romantic orchestra).
As I said, I never studied the versions. Some differences are obvious but fairly trivial, e.g. in one the pastoral symphony is taken without any repeats and lasts only about a minute or "But who may abide" can be song by alto (much preferred) or soprano (or even bass?). Others are probably to subtle for me to pick out without direct A-B-comparisons.

There is a recording with McGegan(?) that has all the versions (by Handel) programmable (it is otherwise not as highly regarded as the usual suspects, though, I have not heard it).

[david johnson]

Beecham/Goossens is great fun!

[Stein Arne Jensen]

There is another Messiah thread, in the Opera/Choral section I think, where they talk about it generally, but perhaps posting there would yield more results? Worth a try...

Thanks.
That's where I started - but I got no response, so I deleted the post and moved it here. Worked much better

Stein

[Stein Arne Jensen]

Gardiner picked the version of each movement which sounded best to him:  this turned out to be mostly versions from 1750s London performances, but not entirely, and he did not aim to produce a recording of any specific Handel performance.

So call it hybrid.

As Jo said, there are as many versions as performances directed by Handel:  he was always retooling to fit his music to the musicians at hand.

Thanks a lot!
This was the kind of information I was hoping for.

Stein

[Stein Arne Jensen]

just stumbled over this here:
http://messiah-guide.com/index.html

Thanks. To me it is first of all useful as a pretty complete listing of available Messiah recordings.
Credits to Bret D. Wheadon who's put a lot of work in the project. Well done!

Stein