The Great American Symphony

[Heck148]

America has produced many great composers, and many fine symphonists...
what work do you consider to be the greatest American symphony??
some possibilities, IMO:

Copland -Sym #3
Harris - Sym #3
Hanson Sym #3
Mennin - Sym #7

possibly, but, for me - FIRST PRIZE goes to

Wm Schuman - Sym #3 -
a real blockbuster, a wartime symphony that is a real challenge for any orchestra -  powerful stuff...

[Maestro267]

I'm a big fan of Bernstein's Symphony No. 2, "The Age of Anxiety". But I haven't heard anywhere near enough American symphonies. I must rectify this, I know.

[Karl Henning]

I'm a big fan of Bernstein's Symphony No. 2, "The Age of Anxiety". But I haven't heard anywhere near enough American symphonies. I must rectify this, I know.

That one was a great and pleasant surprise for me!

America has produced many great composers, and many fine symphonists...
what work do you consider to be the greatest American symphony??
some possibilities, IMO:

Copland -Sym #3
Harris - Sym #3
Hanson Sym #3
Mennin - Sym #7

possibly, but, for me - FIRST PRIZE goes to

Wm Schuman - Sym #3 -
a real blockbuster, a wartime symphony that is a real challenge for any orchestra -  powerful stuff...

I do like the later Schuman symphonies better still.

[Heck148]

That one was a great and pleasant surprise for me!

I do like the later Schuman symphonies better still.

Yes, the later Schuman symphonies are good - 7, then 8, 9 and 10 are very good...a bit more austere....
still, I think the continuity, the drama of #3 is most effective...the conclusion to Part I [mvts I/II] is a real roof-raiser, one of the greatest orchestra sonorities in the literature - same with the very end...some great touches - the Toccata theme introduced by snare drum??!! then followed by bass clarinet!! fascinating

[Cato]

For your consideration: (chronologically)

Charles Ives: Symphony #2, Symphony #4

Bernard Herrmann: Symphony

George Rochberg: Symphony #2

Roger Sessions: Symphony #3

Elliott Carter: Symphonia sum fluxae pretium spei

[PerfectWagnerite]

I rather like Hanson's 1st and 2nd symphonies. Stuff after that not so much. Also a big fan of Ives' Holiday's Symphony if you stretch the meaning a bit.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I do like the later Schuman symphonies better still.

I heard the Schuman 6th (Slatkin/CSO) a couple of years ago. It's tremendous; I rank it about equal to the 3rd.

Glad to see a mention of Hanson 3 above, which I actually prefer to the more popular "Romantic."

Rochberg 2 is also terrific, but for me it's topped by his #1 - an over-the-top, kitchen-sink anarcho-symphony.

I would add one of the Piston symphonies (probably #2) and of course something by Ives (probably the mind-bending #4).

[Scion7]

I would throw Samuel Barber's Symphony Nr.1 (1937) in the mix.  Toscanini loved it, anyway.

[some guy]

In the twentieth century, coinciding with a general movement by the less traditional composers to go outside the concert hall, symphonies do tend to be an the traditional side, don't they? Everywhere, not just the US. Webern and Zimmermann put out some exceptions to that, as did Dhomont. Even Z'ev has put out a thing called "Symphony #2." I'd put Z'ev's symphony up there with Ives' in the "not business as usual" category.

While I think Sessions should get quite a lot more love than he does, symphonies in the US in the 20th century are not really representative of the important trends and ideas about art that were swirling around in that country then. Fluxus, happenings, multimedia, electronics, percussion, graphic scores, indeterminacy, extended techniques. Yeah, some of those were swirling around in Europe and elsewhere, too, but several of those things started in the US. For a brief time mid-century, the US was leading the avant garde.

But most classical audiences are blissfully unaware. Maybe a little uncomfortably aware. But mostly unaware. And very antagonistic when confronted with anything. I've had people bite my head off for simply having the temerity of mentioning such things as 4'33" or Fluxus, as if simply mentioning them were more or less equivalent to being responsible for their existence.

Oh well. Anything besides those five I already mentioned? When I think of new music in the twentieth century, symphonies are not what comes to mind. To my mind, anyway. So I could easily have missed something.

[Brian]

So far my favorites are Thompson's Second and Barber's First, but my experience (especially with Mr. Schuman) is limited. I used to love the Copland Third but have turned against it. Need to re-investigate Rouse, since I'll soon be attending the premiere of his Fifth.

Among symphonies that the composer failed to call a symphony, Harmonielehre at least deserves an honorable mention.

[Scion7]

I remember a critic who said that maybe if they didn't sound like "Genghiz Khan on cocaine" some of the more extreme avant-garde composers might have made it into the concert halls more often.  Now I have no idea what that means, but it didn't sound good.   

Considering just how experimental many symphonies are,  I see no reason to worry about what might-have-been.  And if you get too far away from what a symphony is supposed to be, then it no longer is a symphony, but some other music form.

Many strong American symphonies have been composed without any need of throwing in a tape-looped helicopter engine.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Need to re-investigate Rouse, since I'll soon be attending the premiere of his Fifth.

Cool. Where and when is that happening?

Among symphonies that the composer failed to call a symphony, Harmonielehre at least deserves an honorable mention.

Yeah, same for his follow-up, Naïve and Sentimental Music.

[(poco) Sforzando]

At the NY premiere of "Naïve and Sentimental Music," Adams was asked at the pre-concert talk if his symphony was actually a symphony. Adams: "Well, I don't know about a symphony . . . . " - symphony being obviously in his mind a term for Brucknerian/Mahlerian sludge and bloat. (As opposed to Adamsian sludge and bloat.)

I don't know all the candidates mentioned above myself, but my choices are the following:
- Charles Ives, Symphonies Nos. 2 (maybe not the "greatest" but surely the most fun) and 4
- Harold Shapero, Symphony for Classical Orchestra (especially for its extraordinary slow movement)
- Elliott Carter, Symphony of Three Orchestras, Symphonia sum fluxae pretium spei

And definitely not the "greatest," but a great personal favorite: Meyer Kupferman's Little Symphony, a marvelous American counterpart to Prokofiev's 1st.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Cool. Where and when is that happening?

Dallas Symphony, Feb. 2017

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

- Charles Ives, Symphony Nos. 2 (maybe not the "greatest" but surely the most fun) and 4
- Harold Shapero, Symphony for Classical Orchestra (especially for its extraordinary slow movement)
- Elliott Carter, Symphony of Three Orchestras, Symphonia sum fluxae pretium spei

Yep, I love all those too (except "Three Orchestras," which I have yet to hear). On the above comment by Brian

I used to love the Copland Third but have turned against it

I've never liked the Copland as much as the 3rds it gets bracketed with (Schuman, Harris) - by comparison, it seems rather bloated and overblown. However, the nice new recording I got (Kalmar/Oregon) is improving it in my mind.

BTW Kalmar is conducting both the Piston 2nd and the Harris 3rd at Grant Park this summer.

[Karl Henning]

... I used to love the Copland Third but have turned against it.

Oh, I am sorry to hear it. But I shall hope that five years down, the pendulum swings back.

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[Karl Henning]

I used to love the Copland Third but have turned against it

I've never liked the Copland as much as the 3rds it gets bracketed with (Schuman, Harris) - by comparison, it seems rather bloated and overblown. However, the nice new recording I got (Kalmar/Oregon) is improving it in my mind.

Nice to hear!

I'm against type, it seems; I started with a dislike of the Copland Third, but got over it 

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[Dax]

Outside of Ives and Cowell, I've heard few American symphonies. I'm surprised Cowell hasn't been mentioned yet: I came across the  Madras recently and found it pretty impressive. I'm not really a fuguing-tune enthusiast but I do have a lot of time for Ray Green's Sunday Sing Symphony. Does anyone else?

[Cato]

I don't know all the candidates mentioned above myself, but my choices are the following:
- Charles Ives, Symphonies Nos. 2...and 4

- Elliott Carter,  Symphonia sum fluxae pretium spei

We have two votes now for Ives' Fourth and Carter's  Symphonia...spei! 

Not to be forgotten - and it has! -

https://www.youtube.com/v/IS8NFq84_lo

[Mirror Image]

There are many American symphonies that I love (in no particular order):

Barber: Symphonies 1 & 2
Schuman: Symphonies 3, 6, & 10
Copland: Symphony No. 3
Ives: Symphonies 2 & 4, 'Holidays' Symphony
Diamond: Symphonies 3 & 4
Piston: Symphonies 2 & 6
Thompson: Symphony No. 2
Harris: Symphony No. 6 "Gettysburg" (the only Harris symphony I enjoyed otherwise I have always felt he was too preachy and declamatory)