The Great American Symphony

[Artem]

Kyle Gann had an interesting post about this on his blog some time ago: http://www.artsjournal.com/postclassic/2014/07/inventing-an-america.html. He selected the following symphonies:

Anthony Philip Heinrich: The War of the Elements and the Thundering of Niagara (c. 1845)
George Frederick Bristow: Arcadian Symphony, Op. 50 (1872)
George Chadwick: Third Symphony (1894)
Amy Beach: Gaelic Symphony (1896)
Charles Ives: First Symphony (1899)
Charles Ives: Third Symphony (1911) [might ought to do the Fourth, but sentimental about Third]
Virgil Thomson: Symphony on a Hymn Tune (1928)
James P. Johnson: Harlem Symphony (1932)
Roy Harris: Third Symphony (1938)
Florence B. Price: Symphony No. 3 (1940)
George Antheil: Symphony No. 4, "1942" (1942)
Aaron Copland: Third Symphony (1946)
Leonard Bernstein: Second Symphony, "Age of Anxiety" (1949/65)
George Rochberg: Second Symphony (1956)
Roger Sessions: Third Symphony (1957)
William Schuman: Eighth Symphony (1962) [Sixth would do, too]
William Bolcom: Fifth Symphony (1989)
Glenn Branca: Symphony No. 6, "Devil Choirs at the Gates of Heaven" (1989)
Philip Glass: "Low" Symphony (1992)

[Heck148]

I rather like Hanson's 1st and 2nd symphonies.

Hanson #1 is very good, alot like #3...#2 is his best known, and it has some very effective writing, but it is too disjointed, episodic relative to #s 1 and 3.
I performed Hanson #2 with the composer conducting...it was fun, quite exciting.

[Heck148]

I heard the Schuman 6th (Slatkin/CSO) a couple of years ago. It's tremendous; I rank it about equal to the 3rd.
Glad to see a mention of Hanson 3 above, which I actually prefer to the more popular "Romantic."
Rochberg 2 is also terrific, but for me it's topped by his #1 - an over-the-top, kitchen-sink anarcho-symphony.

Rochberg #2 "The Atonal" is very good, glad to see it getting some mentions.

[Heck148]

But most classical audiences are blissfully unaware. Maybe a little uncomfortably aware. But mostly unaware. And very antagonistic when confronted with anything.

just think of all the wonderful 20th century symphonies that could be programmed in place of yet another presentation of Tchaik 4, 5, or Rach-y #2...gawd, those old warhorses occupy SO much concert space/time.

[Heck148]

I used to love the Copland Third but have turned against it.

Try his "Dance Symphony"...the wonderful Gould/Chicago recording is now available, along with Gould "Spirituals"

[Heck148]

Many strong American symphonies have been composed without any need of throwing in a tape-looped helicopter engine.

Try Diamond or Mennin, fine composers who wrote very excellent symphonies - Diamond 2, 3, 4 are definitely worth hearing, and Mennin #7 is a real All-Star..#3 is good, too. Most all of the works mentioned are quite readily approachable...

[Heck148]

There are many American symphonies that I love (in no particular order):

Barber: Symphonies 1 & 2
Schuman: Symphonies 3, 6, & 10
Copland: Symphony No. 3
Ives: Symphonies 2 & 4, 'Holidays' Symphony
Diamond: Symphonies 3 & 4
Piston: Symphonies 2 & 6
Thompson: Symphony No. 2
Harris: Symphony No. 6 "Gettysburg" (the only Harris symphony I enjoyed otherwise I have always felt he was too preachy and declamatory)

Good list!! I do like Harris #3....he does get academic sounding tho, same with Piston...

[Mirror Image]

Good list!! I do like Harris #3....he does get academic sounding tho, same with Piston...

Thanks, yeah Harris' 3rd is pretty good. It's been years since I've listened to it. I'll probably revisit it this weekend.

[amw]

I don't think there has been a "Great American Symphony". (I don't see why there has to be.) There have been some decent ones, Ives #4 probably the best of the bunch, Carter maybe (though I'm not such a huge fan anymore), Sessions maybe but even the later ones are overshadowed by the Concerto for Orchestra... the midcentury Boulangerie ones everyone's been nominating so far are pleasant to listen to but very much in one ear and out the other. Americans have produced great string quartets and great electronic pieces and great experimental work and a fair amount of great kitsch, but not much in the way of symphonies.

Of course most American symphonies have been 20th century and the number of truly great symphonies of any nationality after, oh, 1910 or so can be counted on your fingers
[/stirs pot]

[Brian]

I performed Hanson #2 with the composer conducting...it was fun, quite exciting.

I would like to hear more about this!!

I don't think there has been a "Great American Symphony". (I don't see why there has to be.) There have been some decent ones, Ives #4 probably the best of the bunch, Carter maybe (though I'm not such a huge fan anymore), Sessions maybe but even the later ones are overshadowed by the Concerto for Orchestra... the midcentury Boulangerie ones everyone's been nominating so far are pleasant to listen to but very much in one ear and out the other. Americans have produced great string quartets and great electronic pieces and great experimental work and a fair amount of great kitsch, but not much in the way of symphonies.

Of course most American symphonies have been 20th century and the number of truly great symphonies of any nationality after, oh, 1910 or so can be counted on your fingers
[/stirs pot]

Your post got me thinking a little more outside the box about what a true American symphony would sound like, and I am changing my vote:

Mingus - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zFA0FYQo0Gg

[amw]

Haha, realest answer in this thread

[Karl Henning]

I don't think there has been a "Great American Symphony". (I don't see why there has to be.)

I am in sympathy both with this philosophical rumination, and with the ongoing discussion of strong American writing in the genre.

As for any of the works being (I may be misrememberly paraphrasing) "very much in one ear and out the other" ... I've seen some GMGers say just that about Mozart (e.g.) And no one will seriously entertain the reassignment of Mozart to the second tier.

My point being that any body of work needs a degree of sympathy from the audience (what our Alan refers to as "the listener's share"); and (as we've discussed w/r/t Haydn & Dvořák, f'rinstance) there are bodies of work which may at first seem a Sea of Sameness, but which with aural attunement reveal rich variety in content.

[Karl Henning]

I would like to hear more about this!!
Your post got me thinking a little more outside the box about what a true American symphony would sound like, and I am changing my vote:

Mingus - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady

EDIT:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zFA0FYQo0Gg

Nice!

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[(poco) Sforzando]

Sessions maybe but even the later ones are overshadowed by the Concerto for Orchestra...

I could (and would) make exactly the same point about Carter, whose CfO is to my mind one of the outstanding American compositions.

Regarding "in one ear and out the other," well, I haven't reviewed a lot of the neo-classical American symphonies in my collection of late and no doubt ought to do so, but I wouldn't aggressively dispute the point based on my recollections. [stirs pot again]

[Heck148]

I don't think there has been a "Great American Symphony". (I don't see why there has to be.).... the midcentury Boulangerie ones everyone's been nominating so far are pleasant to listen to but very much in one ear and out the other. Americans have produced great string quartets and great electronic pieces and great experimental work and a fair amount of great kitsch, but not much in the way of symphonies.

Disagree completely - there have been many fine symphonies written by Americans - the ones mentioned so far are good examples - Schuman #3 is in no way "easy listening", or "pleasant to listen to" - it's a powerhouse, indeed - listen to Bernstein/NYPO I, or Slatkin/CSO - these guys are really tearing it up...

Of course most American symphonies have been 20th century and the number of truly great symphonies of any nationality after, oh, 1910 or so can be counted on your fingers

again - there is such a huge number of great symphonies written after 1910, you'd have to have a multi-person effort to count them all - not just American - but Russian, English, European.
They suffer from under-exposure, that is the problem....the old warhorses - Tchaik 4,5, Rach-y 2 receive WAY too much exposure.....give them a rest......

[(poco) Sforzando]

Since most of us do most of our listening from recordings these days, all that's needed for "exposure" is a decent recording that's easily available. So maybe a Christopher Rouse symphony is being played in Dallas next year; how does that help me if I live in New York? I've known the Carter CfO for years from its four recordings, but have only heard the piece once live (in an inadequate performance under Leon Botstein). I've never heard the Shapero played live, but came to love it through the Bernstein recording (which is much better than the Previn). And at a time when all but the top American orchestras are struggling to stay afloat, I'm not going to blame a conductor for programming Tchaikovsky 5 rather than Mennin 7 and thus risking a hall that's 3/4 empty.

That said, I remember Schuman as being one of the more powerful voices here mentioned, while Piston, Creston, Diamond, Hanson were pretty much in one ear and out the other. Randall Thompson I remember only as a composer of some ghastly folksong settings I had to accompany many years ago. But I could see going through the shelves and starting a little listening project to acquaint or reacquaint myself with some of the names mentioned above.

[Heck148]

Diamond, Hanson were pretty much in one ear and out the other.

Diamond, Hanson and Mennin are very good composers...the live symphonic repertoire could really use some freshening...the endless cavalcade of warhorses really gets tedious...there is so much fine music that is not performed nearly often enough...
to hell with yet another Rach'y Sym #2, a dreadful, boring, murky mess..2 fine symphonies of Diamond or Mennin could be heard for one slog thru this tired sonic miasma...

[Brian]

That said, I remember Schuman as being one of the more powerful voices here mentioned, while Piston, Creston, Diamond, Hanson were pretty much in one ear and out the other. Randall Thompson I remember only as a composer of some ghastly folksong settings I had to accompany many years ago. But I could see going through the shelves and starting a little listening project to acquaint or reacquaint myself with some of the names mentioned above.

Last year I went through a weeklong listening project of Piston, Creston, and Diamond symphonies, trying to figure out which ones I liked. There were a couple good ones. Unfortunately, I immediately forgot which they were, which suggests that maybe there weren't so many good ones after all. I do remember that none of the Piston symphonies where nearly as entertaining as his "Incredible Flutist" ballet.

Will add Shapero/Bernstein to my agenda. I have the gigantic mega-box of Bernstein's Columbia recordings but have not played that one yet.

P.S. An interesting perspective on Randall Thompson from a longtime chorister. Thompson's Requiem will be released on Naxos next month, its first complete recording.

[Heck148]

I do remember that none of the Piston symphonies where nearly as entertaining as his "Incredible Flutist" ballet.

yup, I agree...

[vandermolen]

Very difficult to choose as I like so many of those already mentioned but my top candidates would be:

Copland: Symphony 3
Bernstein: 'Jeremiah'
William Schuman: Symphony 6
David Diamond: Symphony 3

Others I like very much:

Roy Harris: symphonies 3,6 and 7
George Antheil: Symphony 4
Howard Hanson: Symphony 3 (especially in Koussevitsky's marvellous performance)
Barber: symphonies 1 and 2
Ives: Symphony 3 'The Camp Meeting'
Bernard Herrmann's Symphony
Morton Gould's 'West-Point Symphony'
Creston: Symphony 2
Schuman: Symphony 3
Piston: Symphony 2
Kurka: Symphony 2
Copland: Organ Symphony