The Great American Symphony

[Monsieur Croche]

We have so few so we claim any that might have spent any significant time in the US like Stravinsky and Korngold for example

We'll leave the English with their pronounced illogical tic in claiming Handel as "An English composer," but for me, any composer who immigrated to the United States and arrived with their full training and formative years and careers established as adult composers already behind them are not "American Composers."  They are composers of whatever place and culture from whence they came and in which they were steeped, shaped and cooked before they ever arrived in the place of their new citizenship. 

The reason you've never seen, in any writing considered earnest in its scholarship, either Stravinsky or Schoenberg not listed as 'American Composers' is because they were not American Composers any more than Hindemith was an American composer. ;-)

[hpowders]

Yeah. Who would ever call Dvorak or Bartok American composers? 

[Mirror Image]

Yeah. Who would ever call Dvorak or Bartok American composers? 

But why is Honegger considered a Swiss composer when he lived most of his life in France? Could it be something to the effect that the composer himself wanted to be recognized as a Swiss composer or is it music historians just mucking around with things?

[hpowders]

But why is Honegger considered a Swiss composer when he lived most of his life in France? Could it be something to the effect that the composer himself wanted to be recognized as a Swiss composer or is it music historians just mucking around with things?

I guess the Swiss needed all the help they could get in claiming composers. They did really score a bullseye with Frank Martin, though-another scandalously neglected fine 20th century composer.

[Mirror Image]

I guess the Swiss needed all the help they could get in claiming composers. They did really score a bullseye with Frank Martin, though-another scandalously neglected fine 20th century composer.

Hah! Frank Martin is a favorite of mine for sure and, I agree, incredibly underrated.

[hpowders]

Hah! Frank Martin is a favorite of mine for sure and, I agree, incredibly underrated.

Yet he too spent a lot of time elsewhere, the Netherlands!! Claimed again by the Swiss! 

[Mirror Image]

Yet he too spent a lot of time elsewhere, the Netherlands!! Claimed again by the Swiss! 

Indeed.

[Mister Sharpe]

I guess the Swiss needed all the help they could get in claiming composers. They did really score a bullseye with Frank Martin, though-another scandalously neglected fine 20th century composer.

HP's explanation is accurate, I think; near the end of his career, the Swiss seemed esp. conscious and appreciative of him and his Swiss commissions and commitments increased accordingly. John's question evokes a broader and complex one - composers, like musicians, seem to be the most itinerant or cosmopolitan, if you will, of artists. If one adopts the simplest and most logical of national determinants, Honneger was born in Le Havre (of Swiss parents) and thus is French. Grove sez Swiss-French. Then there's Kurt Weill, who late in life considered himself an American composer (even changing the pronunciation of his last name from v to w) and proud of it... In sum, I'm glad not to have been the bloke who arranged GMG's composer index by country!

[PerfectWagnerite]

We'll leave the English with their pronounced illogical tic in claiming Handel as "An English composer," but for me, any composer who immigrated to the United States and arrived with their full training and formative years and careers established as adult composers already behind them are not "American Composers."  They are composers of whatever place and culture from whence they came and in which they were steeped, shaped and cooked before they ever arrived in the place of their new citizenship. 

The reason you've never seen, in any writing considered earnest in its scholarship, either Stravinsky or Schoenberg not listed as 'American Composers' is because they were not American Composers any more than Hindemith was an American composer. ;-)

Try here
http://www.classicfm.com/pictures/composer-pictures/4-july-tribute-americas-greatest-composers/
Igor is 3, Arnold and Eric Wolfgang 17 and 18.

[springrite]

Yet he too spent a lot of time elsewhere, the Netherlands!! Claimed again by the Swiss! 

And they say the Swiss are "neutral"! 

[Cato]

Try here
http://www.classicfm.com/pictures/composer-pictures/4-july-tribute-americas-greatest-composers/
Igor is 3, Arnold and Eric Wolfgang 17 and 18.

Charles Pachelbel    CHARLES Pachelbel is one of the top American composers in a list forgetting e.g. Bernard Herrmann, George Crumb, Roger Sessions, Charles Wuorinen, Roy Harris, Elliott Carter, etc. etc. etc..

Startling that Jay Greenberg was not on the list!v

[Monsieur Croche]

Try here
http://www.classicfm.com/pictures/composer-pictures/4-july-tribute-americas-greatest-composers/
Igor is 3, Arnold and Eric Wolfgang 17 and 18.

That is the same jingoist relativism from the same locale that has Handel as an English composer.

and, as if the scholarly world of music, music criticism, history and musicology has anything remotely in common with the populist- relativist Classic FM. 

[Sergeant Rock]

That is the same jingoist relativism from the same locale that has Handel as an English composer.

No...it's just a matter of dual citizenship    Korngold, for example, is the quintessential Hollywood composer. Hence, he's more American than most Americans 

Sarge

[springrite]

No...it's just a matter of dual citizenship    Korngold, for example, is the quintessential Hollywood composer. Hence, he's more American than most Americans 

Sarge

Not to mention the most perfect name for that type of music -- Corn + Gold. You can't make up a better name for that! 

[Sergeant Rock]

Not to mention the most perfect name for that type of music -- Corn + Gold. You can't make up a better name for that! 

Sarge

[Ken B]

I have concluded that Ives' 4th is 'The Great American Symphony.'

John's account might have been hacked. He's heard too many American symphonies for this to be possible.

[Ken B]

Yeah. Who would ever call Dvorak or Bartok American composers? 

Or Stravinsky or Weill or Schoenberg who were after all citizens. And what about Martinu?

[Mirror Image]

John's account might have been hacked. He's heard too many American symphonies for this to be possible.

Yeah, I don't really think there is just one 'Great American Symphony,' but many of them, just like I don't think there's one 'Great Russian Symphony' or one 'Great Austrian Symphony' for example.

[Ken B]

Yeah, I don't really think there is just one 'Great American Symphony,' but many of them, just like I don't think there's one 'Great Russian Symphony' or one 'Great Austrian Symphony' for example.

There isn't even "one great Bruckner symphony"!

[hpowders]

Or Stravinsky or Weill or Schoenberg who were after all citizens. And what about Martinu?

I've never heard any of my associates refer to any the above music writers as American composers, not even after 3 gin & tonics....or is it 3 gins & tonic?