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Florestan´s Romantic Salon

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North Star:

--- Quote from: Cato on January 12, 2019, 03:52:16 PM ---Fascinating idea, although my first impression is that it needs to be placed on its head, i.e. is not early urban Modernism critical of the urban life it finds, rather than nostalgic or laudatory?  I am thinking primarily of the critical/satirical novels of Sinclair Lewis of the 1910's and 1920's, along with things like The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald.

On the other hand, Thomas Mann's Buddenbrooks and The Magic Mountain along with Hermann Hesse's early works like Knulp and Beneath the Wheel would seem to have a variation of the Romantic spirit, albeit also rather critical and/or satirical. 

Early 20th Century Science Fiction can be viewed as having a "Romantic" connection I would think: fantasy, optimistic and pessimistic, themes on human life: here I would mention the works of H.G. Wells, and the movies Metropolis, Just Imagine, and King Kong.
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True, there's certainly also a criticizing/mocking tone to many of these portrayals of urban life in modern art.

Mandryka:
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This is a wonderful recording of the Machaut mass. They sing it like it's a chamber piece by Schumann, voices projected like lieder singers, quivering with tasteful humanising vibrato, sweet instrumental accompaniment, everything in line and everything fluid, glorious cantabile with long long phrases, all the harmonies resolved like in a part song by Schubert. Of course it's a lie, a travesty, a romantic effusion. But what glorious music making! What a siren song!

Traverso:

--- Quote from: Mandryka on February 24, 2019, 12:15:20 AM ---[/img]


This is a wonderful recording of the Machaut mass. They sing it like it's a chamber piece by Schumann, voices projected like lieder singers, quivering with tasteful humanising vibrato, sweet instrumental accompaniment, everything in line and everything fluid, glorious cantabile with long long phrases, all the harmonies resolved like in a part song by Schubert. Of course it's a lie, a travesty, a romantic effusion. But what glorious music making! What a siren song!

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You mean that you can smell the fish and chips through the haze. :D

Ken B:

--- Quote from: North Star on January 12, 2019, 02:12:19 PM ---I have also thought for some time of the Epressionism of Schönberg, Berg etc as the height of Romanticism, instead of as a breaking from it. Much of early Modernism is also a kind of urban Romanticism, treating factories and streets as the previous generations treated forests and rivers.

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Absolutely.




some guy:

--- Quote from: Cato on January 12, 2019, 09:16:28 AM ---...if Romanticism is about death, love, yearning, and inchoate desires to express things inexpressible....

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A pretty big "if," though, no?

Romanticism starts with the primacy of the individual and all that entails. In practice, what that entails is that Romanticism is inclusive. Since all individuals differ from each other somewhat, accepting the primacy of the individual means accepting a whole bunch of differing and contradictory ideas and ideals. That's probably the chief reason that Romanticism was so hard to define, and why many efforts to define it fasten so quickly upon features like the turn towards medievalism and the reaction against industrialization. And that's probably why almost anyone can find something in Romanticism that speaks to them.

So yeah, Romanticism does include death, love, yearning, and inchoate desires to express the inexpressible. But it also includes life, hate, exuberance, and the desire to express even inchoate things precisely and accurately. Because it derived its rules from within the individual as opposed to external authority, and because of many of its practitioners' fascination with extremes of sense and of emotion, it has acquired a reputation for being loose and undisciplined, for being about looseness and lack of discipline--anything goes kinda thing. And because humans do tend to be emotional creatures, the emotional "freedoms" promised by Romanticism tend to get emphasized, in post-Romantic times, over all its other qualities.

Barzun's idea about the 19th century explains a lot about current, narrow views of Romanticism--his idea was that the movements that followed Romanticism, Naturalism, Realism, and Symbolism, were not so much reactions against Romanticism as they were splintered off from it. Romanticism included the things that make up Naturalism and Realism and Symbolism. But if one sees those three as reactions against Romanticism, then it's pretty easy to see Romanticism as being only those elements of it that are not found in those three. This is, I think, exactly what has happened. Which is a great pity, I think. A bit like "liberal" getting narrowed down so that it is roughly synonymous with "left wing," when it is actually much more inclusive, interested in understanding and appreciating the ideas of conservatism, libertarianism, and leftism, alike. And of understanding and appreciating the qualities of different cultures and nationalities and genders and ages.

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