Author Topic: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939  (Read 21570 times)

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Offline vandermolen

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #60 on: May 24, 2015, 10:16:05 AM »
I'm not going to turn you on to his other symphonies,am I?!! ;D

Regarding Tournemire's death. Being a lowbrow sort,I did (unfortunately) initially picture another kind of "bog",when I saw your post.

http://www.examiner.com/article/remembering-judy-garland-1922-1969-liza-s-mom-died-on-the-toilet-voiding-herself-of-life

And incidentally,what a ghastly website. Hopefully,you've never been morbid enough to peruse the pages of Find a Death!!
Best not to think about this sort of thing when you're viewing The Wizard of Oz!! >:( (A childhood favourite of my late mother,so it does strike a chord!)
No, I will definitely get down to the other symphonies this week. I am on half-term as a teacher and have loads of work to do at home, so Tournemire will be there with me. Yes, 2015 sees the release of documents connected with Tournemire's mysterious death. One source said he was fleeing the Germans, but that seems unlikely as they didn't invade France and Belgium until 1940. I see what you mean about 'bog' and I doubt the new research will show that he died by inadvertently flushing himself down the toilet. I already have symphonies 2 and 4 out to play later.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #61 on: May 24, 2015, 11:57:27 PM »
I must say No2 is the only one that I haven't warmed to at all! I expect the performance and recording quality doesn't help. I would love to hear No4 in a good performance,though. I am just thinking about how glorious the Louis Glass third sounds in the recent Cpo recording. There is simply no comparison with the Plovdiv or any other recording of a Louis Glass symphony I  have heard. This is how Louis Glass sounds! Likewise,I would like to see a quality label like Cpo perform their 'magic' on the symphonies of Tournemire!
Apologies for bringing up the alternative connotations of the word "bog"! My father once had a friend who used the term (who wrote the Complete Book of Self Sufficiency incidentally,which is still on sale and considered to be a classic in the field!) Also,there is a pub in town with *bog" on the door of the gents. Anyway,enough of this coarse slang!! ??? ;D

Offline Christo

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2015, 04:01:24 AM »
After becoming positively impressed with the Third Symphony 'Moscow' and also the Seventh 'Les dances de la vie', urged by this thread, I simply ordered for the rest of the symphonies. Mostly the Marco Polo series with the Moscow SO under Antonio De Almeida, but No. 6 with the Liège forces under Pierre Bartholomee (I already own the coupling of No. 3 and No. 7 with Bartholomee).

Did anyone ever compare the two versions? Is the Bartholomee cycle generally considered to be better? Any thoughts?
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2015, 07:45:52 AM »
After becoming positively impressed with the Third Symphony 'Moscow' and also the Seventh 'Les dances de la vie', urged by this thread, I simply ordered for the rest of the symphonies. Mostly the Marco Polo series with the Moscow SO under Antonio De Almeida, but No. 6 with the Liège forces under Pierre Bartholomee (I already own the coupling of No. 3 and No. 7 with Bartholomee).

Did anyone ever compare the two versions? Is the Bartholomee cycle generally considered to be better? Any thoughts?

I have just ordered the Bartholomee version of No.3. It was not cheap but I like the work so much I feel that it is worth it. Which do you like more Johan that one or the Marco Polo, which I enjoy very much? I think that I have the Liege version of No.6 but have not heard it for a while.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Christo

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2015, 11:06:37 AM »
So far, I only have the Bartholomee version of Symphony No. 3 'Moscow', so I cannot compare them yet. AFAIK, neither cycle is complete, though one almost. I understand that the better known cycle, the Moscow SO under Antionio de Almeida on the Marco Polo label, includes symphonies Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8 (leaving No. 6 out). Whereas the Liège forces (with different choirs and soloists) under Pierre Bartholomee on the Auvidis Valois label only recorded symphonies Nos. 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 (leaving Nos. 1, 2 and 4 out).

Which means that Symphony No. 6 - apparently his masterpiece - only received one recording, and Nos. 3, 5, 7, and 8 are available in two recordings to make comparison possible.
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline J

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2015, 04:18:07 PM »
I would like to see a quality label like Cpo perform their 'magic' on the symphonies of Tournemire!

Has CPO EVER recorded anything French? 

Offline Christo

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2015, 08:30:50 PM »
Has CPO EVER recorded anything French?

Not much. But at least some Milhaud, Koechlin, Francaix, Farrenc, Gouvy. Tournemire would easily fit.
… music is not only an 'entertainment’, nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2015, 07:51:05 AM »
I would like to see a quality label like Cpo perform their 'magic' on the symphonies of Tournemire!

Yes, but who would conduct the performances? Alun Francis perhaps? He'd be a good fit.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 07:59:09 AM by Mirror Image »
"Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art." - Claude Debussy

Offline Rons_talking

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2015, 02:35:43 PM »
I have listened to his 3rd, 5th and 7th symphonies and I found the 7th to be highly original in the use of orchestral texture. The Marco Polo recordings, however, sound woefully under-rehearsed at times, which makes sense, due to the length and density of the music.  I consider this a good find, Tournemire's music is passionate, rhapsodic and modern enough to grab the ear. The opening of the 7th captivated me. I'd love to hear a good recording of it. But the orchestration is often so thick it would be a challenge to manage traffic...There's so much sound!

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2015, 03:22:16 AM »
Have just listened to Symphony 3 'Moscow' on the Auvidis Valois, Bartholomee recording which I found to be a very moving experience - a great performance of a wonderful score. The CD arrived complete with various stickers in place indicating that it had won gramophone awards and I am not surprised. Having said this I don't think that it entirely displaces the Marco Polo, De Almeida, version which is a more reflective performance. The Bartholomee performance has greater urgency and the symphony, I think, emerges as an even greater work - the opening is considerably faster than on Marco Polo and more powerful; the recording seems clearer too. In fact I would say that the two versions compliment each other and I would not like to be without either recording. I am looking forward to seeing what Bartholomee makes of Symphony 7 'Les Dances de la Vie'.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 03:27:49 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2015, 12:31:05 PM »
A recent BBC Music Magazine CD featured a fine programme of French music including Poulenc's Organ Concerto and Durufle's moving Requiem. Sandwiched in between though is Tournemire's Choral-Improvisation sur le 'Victimae paschali' transcribed by Durufle. It is a short but moving work of 10 minutes which I had never heard before and am very pleased to discover.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Scion7

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #71 on: November 16, 2015, 05:31:14 AM »
from ze Grove: " From the late 1920s, Tournemire retreated increasingly from the musical establishment, immersing himself in a variety of 19th-century French mystical writers (such as Hello, Huysmans and Péladan) as well as in medieval architecture and early Christian spirituality. Long periods were spent composing in a small windmill on Ouessant, a location which inspired his opera La légende de Tristan (1925–6), and at a remote house near Arcachon. Chamber works, such as the Sonate-poème for violin and piano (1934–5) and the string quartet Musique orante (1933) are among the more accessible works of these years: Tournemire’s highly individual musical language, now at a stage of ripe development, is ideally suited to conveying a timeless, ethereal atmosphere.  "

Chamber:

For 3–6 insts:
Pf Qt, op.15, 1897–8;
Pf Trio, op.22, 1901;
Pour une épigramme de Théocrite, op.40, 3 fl, 2 cl, harp, 1910;
Musique orante, op.61, str qt, 1933

For 2 insts:
Sonate, op.1, vn, pf, 1892–3, unpubd;
3 pièces, op.4, ob, pf, 1894, unpubd;
Sonate, op.5, vc, pf, 1895;
Andante, op.6, hn, pf, 1896, unpubd;
Suite, op.11, va, pf, 1897, unpubd;
Poème, op.35, vc, pf, 1908, unpubd;
Sonate-poème, op.65, vn, pf, 1934–5;
arrangements for vn, pf, of works by Fontana, Walther, Lolli, Bach, opp.12, 13, 14, 31, 1896–1908

Piano:

Sérénade, op.9, 1896;
Sonata, op.17, 1899; 6 petites pièces, op.20, 1895–1900;
Sarabande, op.23, 1901, unpubd;
Petites pièces, opp.26, 26bis, 1902;
Rhapsodie, op.29, 1904;
Poème mystique, op.33, 1908;
12 Préludes-poèmes, op.58, 1931–2;
Cloches de Châteauneuf-du-Faou, op.62, 1933, unpubd;
Etudes de chaque jour, op.70, 1935–6, unpubd

For harmonium:  Variae preces, 40 pieces, op.21, 1901–2

Some adventurous soul should take a look at the manuscripts of the many unpublished works and have a go at them.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 05:34:28 AM by Scion7 »
The Germans, who make doctrines out of everything, deal with music learnedly; the Italians, being voluptuous, seek in it lively, though fleeting, sensations; the French, more vain than perceptive, manage to speak of it wittily; and the English pay for it . . . - Stendhal

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2016, 04:22:00 AM »
Symphony 3 'Moscow 1913' is such a great work, reflective, moving, self-effacing, philosophical and poignant:

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2016, 04:26:47 AM »
Symphony 3 'Moscow 1913' is such a great work, reflective, moving, self-effacing, philosophical and poignant:



That's my favorite I've heard from Tournemire. The other symphonies I heard didn't do anything for me.
"Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art." - Claude Debussy

cilgwyn

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2016, 05:43:53 AM »
I like No 8,too;and No 5 & 6,are interesting,with some fine moments.The Marco Polo cd of 3 & 8 is my most played Tournemire cd. I have the Auvidis Valois recordings as well,though. His music has a sort of mystical,archaic quality about it,which evokes a distant past. I still haven't made up my mind about him,really. Some of them are hugely ambitious blockbusters like 6 & 7,which opens arrestingly,to my ears,but,despite some imaginative ideas,seems uneven & diffuse. No 6 has a strange atmosphere and I rather like it;but I can't say I play it much!! No 4 has some wonderful music;but not all of it measures up;and the performance and recording quality is diabolical. Ultimately,I am giving his music the benefit of the doubt until a better performed and recorded cycle comes along. I think No's 8 (and 3 here!) are fine symphonies and deserve a bit more attention than they get. Looking at his work list no one could accuse him of not being ambitious,though!

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2016, 05:52:31 AM »
I suppose that's a part of the problem with Tournemire. No major orchestra has recorded any of the music to my knowledge. I also found Almeida's performances to be plodding, lifeless, and the orchestra and recorded sound don't really do him any favors either. I wish a label like Chandos would record the symphonies, but the conductor they choose has to be completely sympathetic and give this music some much needed enthusiasm.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 04:50:38 PM by Mirror Image »
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Offline Cato

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Re: Charles Tournemire 1870-1939
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2016, 06:15:11 AM »
YouTube offers Eugene Goosens conducting Symphonies #3 and #5: #1 is also available.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch/vUqmk29J8wAQ&amp;list=PLANKS6XilgJ2goH8O2HL83EsqbCC6EPwu" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/watch/vUqmk29J8wAQ&amp;list=PLANKS6XilgJ2goH8O2HL83EsqbCC6EPwu</a>
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