Your Top 5 Favorite Tchaikovsky Works

[Jo498]

I like the 1st, never got into the strange 3rd (maybe the most original after the 6th, though), don't care much for the very light and suite-like 2nd. My problem with the 4th and 5th concerns some movements/passages, especially the finales, but also the rather sentimental mvmts. 2+3 of the 5th. It might be overexposure for that one, but not for the 4th because I only got to know it much later. I admire the first 3 mvmts of the 4th and the first of the 5th, though. And the 6th is really justifiedly held above the rest with the most original conception and no flaws.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I like the 1st, never got into the strange 3rd (maybe the most original after the 6th, though), don't care much for the very light and suite-like 2nd. My problem with the 4th and 5th concerns some movements/passages, especially the finales, but also the rather sentimental mvmts. 2+3 of the 5th. It might be overexposure for that one, but not for the 4th because I only got to know it much later. I admire the first 3 mvmts of the 4th and the first of the 5th, though. And the 6th is really justifiedly held above the rest with the most original conception and no flaws.

I've never care much for the 4th myself, especially its bombastic finale. As for the 3rd, my favorite way to experience that work is through Balanchine's choreography, the concluding Diamonds section of his ballet Jewels:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ArLbpD38sc

[Jo498]

I think the pizzicato scherzo is brilliant, I don't care for the brassy fatum intro as well but the main section of the first movement "off beat" waltz is quite good although not better than the 5th or 6th.
Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical, less focussed on symphonic style and development. So the scherzo of the 4th might be "too light" for a serious "fatum" symphony but it is quite brilliant as it is...

(For the 3rd ballett I have to find a gadget that will let me watch it in GEMA-Land)

[Maestro267]

Tchaikovsky's is the only symphony cycle where I couldn't live without any of them.

[Heck148]

Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical,

I wouldn't say Tchaikovsky is better with "lighter" music - but rather with dance music, ballet...PIT really excels with the dance - here he really plugs into the drama, the great buildup and release of the dance action. ie - some of the wonderful Nutcracker music - [conclusion to act I], or the opening, or Waltz from Swan Lake - great stuff...
I find the first 3 symphonies to be more in this style...I like #6, but not schmaltzy and overly sentimentalized - I prefer Reiner or Mravinsky, or perhaps Mitropoulos...

[Brian]

I think the pizzicato scherzo is brilliant, I don't care for the brassy fatum intro as well but the main section of the first movement "off beat" waltz is quite good although not better than the 5th or 6th.
Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical, less focussed on symphonic style and development. So the scherzo of the 4th might be "too light" for a serious "fatum" symphony but it is quite brilliant as it is...

In the symphonies you presumably prefer recordings like Gatti's which emphasize the lightness and dance elements rather than the melodrama?

[Jo498]

I don't like the symphonies enough to seek out multiple recordings. (In fact I could probably easily do without any of them. There were years when I could not listen to this stuff and I still get tired of most of them fairly quickly; a few years ago I wanted to compare several versions of the 4th or 5th and had to stop because I could not bear listening to the piece twice within an afternoon/evening...)
I don't think anything can redeem the 4th's finale for me and the scherzo is brilliant as long as it is played well enough.
I still have a lot of 4-6. I bought Mravinsky's and Fricsay's 4-6 on purpose, also Markevitch's complete recording and I have quite a few more of 4,5,6  because they came in boxes or as fillers for other things, e.g. Klemperer, Silvestri, another Markevitch 6th, another Fricsay 6th, Szell in 4 and 5...
If I found Svetlanov's (or maybe Roshdestvensky's) 1970s recordings of 1-3 separately, I might get them as alternatives to Markevitch, but I am not seeking out more of 4-6.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I think the pizzicato scherzo is brilliant, I don't care for the brassy fatum intro as well but the main section of the first movement "off beat" waltz is quite good although not better than the 5th or 6th.
Overall, for Tchaikovsky is better in "lighter" music which does not mean less serious but more theatrical, less focussed on symphonic style and development. So the scherzo of the 4th might be "too light" for a serious "fatum" symphony but it is quite brilliant as it is...

(For the 3rd ballett I have to find a gadget that will let me watch it in GEMA-Land)

Does YouTube not function in Germany, or just that video?

Agree on the pizzicato scherzo of 4.

[Sergeant Rock]

Does YouTube not function in Germany, or just that video?

GEMA is the Gesellschaft für musikalische Aufführungs-und mechanische Vervielfältigungsrechte (Society for musical performing and mechanical reproduction rights). They prevent many videos, although not all by any means, from being shown in Germany (or rather, they make YouTube block the viewing for anyone trying to access the video from a German IP).

This is what your link looks like to those of us living in Germany:



Sarge

[Jo498]

Sorry, I naively assumed that the topic of GEMA blocked youtube videos had come up before.

Blame Richard Strauss, co-founder of GEMA (or more precisely its preceding institution).

[Karl Henning]

Something else we can blame Richard Strauss for!  (j/k)

[(poco) Sforzando]

GEMA is the Gesellschaft für musikalische Aufführungs-und mechanische Vervielfältigungsrechte (Society for musical performing and mechanical reproduction rights). They prevent many videos, although not all by any means, from being shown in Germany (or rather, they make YouTube block the view of anyone trying to access the video from a German IP).

This is what your link looks like to those of us living in Germany:]

Sarge

Ah. Ich wusste das nicht. You will therefore have to move to America, or I will have to find you a different link. Someone ought to inform the good people at YouTube, however, that the comma following "music" is incorrect, as it refers to music in an absolute (non-restrictive) sense, while the intention is to make the statement restrictive.

There is a rather good DVD version of the complete Jewels by the Paris Opera Ballet, for those interested.

[Jo498]

There are workarounds. There are programs that use proxy servers to hide one's identity, so youtube doesn't recognize one is browsing from Germany. I just can't be bothered to install such a thing.
While there are similar institutions in many other countries, GEMA seems to be in perennial strife with youtube. I often cannot access videos embedded on US or even Austrian or other European websites/fora.

[Mirror Image]

I don't like the symphonies enough to seek out multiple recordings. (In fact I could probably easily do without any of them. There were years when I could not listen to this stuff and I still get tired of most of them fairly quickly; a few years ago I wanted to compare several versions of the 4th or 5th and had to stop because I could not bear listening to the piece twice within an afternoon/evening...)
I don't think anything can redeem the 4th's finale for me and the scherzo is brilliant as long as it is played well enough.
I still have a lot of 4-6. I bought Mravinsky's and Fricsay's 4-6 on purpose, also Markevitch's complete recording and I have quite a few more of 4,5,6  because they came in boxes or as fillers for other things, e.g. Klemperer, Silvestri, another Markevitch 6th, another Fricsay 6th, Szell in 4 and 5...
If I found Svetlanov's (or maybe Roshdestvensky's) 1970s recordings of 1-3 separately, I might get them as alternatives to Markevitch, but I am not seeking out more of 4-6.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm finding myself nodding in agreement with you here. I revisited Symphonies 1-3 & 5 a week or so ago and I found myself not really allured by this music any longer. I'm not sure if it's just been that time away from his music that changed my outlook, but I barely got through these symphonies. The 1st ("Winter Dreams") was my favorite as I thought the writing was had a greater unity than the others. I then listened to the Violin Concerto and found it uninteresting. There's nothing that stuck out to me. I think, as someone else mentioned, that Tchaikovsky's greatest talent was writing ballet music. Even here, I'm not too impressed by these works either. Just give me some Mussorgsky any day of the week over Tchaikovsky.

Edit: This post should be in the 'Unpopular Opinions' thread.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I think, as someone else mentioned, that Tchaikovsky's greatest talent was writing ballet music. Even here, I'm not too impressed by these works either.

As will not surprise anyone, I think the three ballets work best when seen and not only heard. The Nutcracker, despite some minor cuts and rearrangements, is absolutely sublime in the version George Balanchine devised for the NYC Ballet, and a good DVD is available. (Macaulay Culkin plays the Nutcracker Prince, but fortunately he's still young and innocent enough so as not to be obnoxious.) Balanchine's great strength, in addition to fabulous sets and costumes, was to conceive the ballet in terms of childlike innocence rather than the nascent sexuality that tarnishes some other versions like Baryshnikov's. It can be fairly said that no other work dominates the world of dance as this one; it still draws sell-out crowds each year during City Ballet's winter season, where it is the sole work being presented some 45 times.

The other two ballets are more problematical for various reasons. It is hard not to make the villain in Swan Lake other than a caricature, and I've yet to see the ending make sense. But a great ballerina can make the Black Swan section in Act Three thrilling, especially if she does the full 32 famous fouettées (whip turns) in this act. As for Sleeping Beauty, I've seen some spotty productions, but one of the most thrilling experiences in my life was seeing Paloma Herrera from American Ballet Theatre in the Rose Adagio. As the movement drew to its conclusion with the most difficult balancing on point that I've ever seen, the entire audience that night at the Metropolitan Opera erupted in an ovation practically beyond anything else in my experience.

Just give me some Mussorgsky any day of the week over Tchaikovsky.

But what about weekends? That said, I do find Mussorgsky the more original, rougher and less polished voice. Boris Godunov is a stunning work.

[Jo498]

I wouldn't say Tchaikovsky is better with "lighter" music - but rather with dance music, ballet...PIT really excels with the dance - here he really plugs into the drama, the great buildup and release of the dance action. ie - some of the wonderful Nutcracker music - [conclusion to act I], or the opening, or Waltz from Swan Lake - great stuff...

Yes, this is a better description. He is also quite good at dramatic gestures like the prelude to Sleeping Beauty (and while I don't care for the fatal fanfare in the Fourth, I can hardly deny its striking effect) and evocative scenes like the snowy forest at the end of Nutcracker act I. These qualities do not always compute for me when combined in a symphony so I tend to find most of them mixed bags while there are no complaints about the ballet music or the string serenade.

There were years when I hardly listened to PIT. But there was a Melodiya sale at jpc so I ordered Svetlanov's recording of Sleeping Beauty and Khaikin's of Pique Dame and maybe I'll finally get to seriously listen to the latter as well as Eugen Onegin.

[Mirror Image]

As will not surprise anyone, I think the three ballets work best when seen and not only heard. The Nutcracker, despite some minor cuts and rearrangements, is absolutely sublime in the version George Balanchine devised for the NYC Ballet, and a good DVD is available. (Macaulay Culkin plays the Nutcracker Prince, but fortunately he's still young and innocent enough so as not to be obnoxious.) Balanchine's great strength, in addition to fabulous sets and costumes, was to conceive the ballet in terms of childlike innocence rather than the nascent sexuality that tarnishes some other versions like Baryshnikov's. It can be fairly said that no other work dominates the world of dance as this one; it still draws sell-out crowds each year during City Ballet's winter season, where it is the sole work being presented some 45 times.

The other two ballets are more problematical for various reasons. It is hard not to make the villain in Swan Lake other than a caricature, and I've yet to see the ending make sense. But a great ballerina can make the Black Swan section in Act Three thrilling, especially if she does the full 32 famous fouettées (whip turns) in this act. As for Sleeping Beauty, I've seen some spotty productions, but one of the most thrilling experiences in my life was seeing Paloma Herrera from American Ballet Theatre in the Rose Adagio. As the movement drew to its conclusion with the most difficult balancing on point that I've ever seen, the entire audience that night at the Metropolitan Opera erupted in an ovation practically beyond anything else in my experience.

But what about weekends? That said, I do find Mussorgsky the more original, rougher and less polished voice. Boris Godunov is a stunning work.

I'm sure watching ballet has it's benefits for some people, but I don't like watching ballet, so, therefore, I don't see any benefits it would have for me. The music is all I care about at the end of the day.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I'm sure watching ballet has it's benefits for some people, but I don't like watching ballet, so, therefore, I don't see any benefits it would have for me. The music is all I care about at the end of the day.

If you ever visit New York during winter, John, I'll buy you a ticket to Nutcracker. As Balanchine himself said, if you don't like the dancing you can close your eyes and enjoy a live concert.

[Mirror Image]

If you ever visit New York during winter, John, I'll buy you a ticket to Nutcracker. As Balanchine himself said, if you don't like the dancing you can close your eyes and enjoy a live concert.

That would be great. I mean I'm not opposed to seeing a ballet of course. I guess this is simply my Brucknerian logic acting up on me again.

[Rons_talking]

Symphony No.4
1812
Sleeping Beauty
Piano Concerto
Romeo and Juliet

As a five year-old, the 1812 Overture was my big favorite. I'd act out the whole scenerio .