Greatest Composer Since the Time of Beethoven, sorry but it's true.

[Simula]

I don't even like his music, but he is perhaps the greatest composer since Beethoven... that is to say, the innovative genius Stockhausen.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Ok whilst I agree that Stockhausen was very good at composing and I particularly like his advocacy of improvisation (especially for orchestral musicians who would otherwise not get opportunities to improvise) I don't think one can simply make this claim as being 'true.'

I would be interested to read why you think it is true though.

[Simula]

All music hitherto was here 1..........10, this is what it looked like after Stockhausen:

-0,  -44, 10000000000000000000000000000, 000000000000000000000000000000000000000, 00000000000000000000000000

32- 97-402- v 0r93548655-4023420455.

[Monsieur Croche]

Sigh...

Mama-Drama queens always get the most attention because they are the noisiest and most obvious, lol.  Ergo, "Its always Beethoven, isn't it?"

As to the OP, unlike Beethoven, there has not been near enough time to sort out who was the greatest, most innovative, etc.

As to both innovative and influential catalyst composers changing the musical landscape in a big way, I think you could toss in Elliott Carter as the forefather of 'the new school of complexity,' or Berio, Ligeti, for their trail-blazing works, and probably a good handful more who don't immediately pop into mind.

But if you are as youthfully zealous about Stockhausen, or merely a little OCD about him -- and or good ole' Luigi -- regardless of your age, then there ya go, i.e. such wholesale and absolute statements will pour forth, be said with force, and repeatedly.

I either care less about "nominating anyone for this title," and also, well, care less and am much more willing to wait.


Best regards

[Simula]

Sigh...

Mama-Drama queens always get the most attention because they are the noisiest and most obvious, lol.  Ergo, "Its always Beethoven, isn't it?"

As to the OP, unlike Beethoven, there has not been near enough time to sort out who was the greatest, most innovative, etc.

As to both innovative and influential catalyst composers changing the musical landscape in a big way, I think you could toss in Elliott Carter as the forefather of 'the new school of complexity,' or Berio, Ligeti, for their trail-blazing works, and probably a good handful more who don't immediately pop into mind.

But if you are as youthfully zealous about Stockhausen, or merely a little OCD about him -- and or good ole' Luigi -- regardless of your age, then there ya go, i.e. such wholesale and absolute statements will pour forth, be said with force, and repeatedly.

I either care less about "nominating anyone for this title," and also, well, care less and am much more willing to wait.


Bert regards

I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but Stockhausen is the greatest composer since Beethoven.

[Simula]

His music is a huge world I am immersed in, his music is innovative and forward thinking.

There you have it, greatest composer since Beethoven.

[Simula]

On a side note, the idea of greatest has always seemed like a sales strategy anyway.

E.G:

"the Greatest bar of soap"
"the GREATEST seafood restaurant in town"
"the GREATEST pizza shop you'll eat at"
"the GREATEST music ever written, now half price"
"the GREATEST football league in Britain"

And so on..

In the case of Stockhausen (as greatest) there is nothing wrong with telling the truth. I don't even like his music.

[Monsieur Croche]

I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but Stockhausen is the greatest composer since Beethoven.

^^^See, I predicted this*^^^ ... yawn.

..."But if you are as youthfully zealous about Stockhausen, or merely a little OCD about him -- and or good ole' Luigi -- regardless of your age, then there ya go, i.e. such wholesale and absolute statements will pour forth, be said with force, and repeatedly."

*P.s. you might want to look up Argument / Proof by assertion, lol.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

In the case of Stockhausen (as greatest) there is nothing wrong with telling the truth. I don't even like his music.

What don't you like about his music?

[Monsieur Croche]

What don't you like about his music?

"No Harmony, Melody, Rhythm or Structure,"

(Why anyone would think these elements could be absent from any piece of music is totally outside my grasp :-)

[Mirror Image]

"No Harmony, Melody, Rhythm or Structure,"

(Why anyone would think these elements could be absent from any piece of music is totally outside my grasp :-)

Aside from quoting me, why can't you be serious for a minute and answer Jessop's question?

If you think this has 'harmony, melody, rhythm, and structure,' then I'll grant you the 'Golden Ears Award' -

https://www.youtube.com/v/hIeZTxdknLM

Since YouTube seems not to be working, it's a piece of electronic nonsense from Stockhausen.

[some guy]

Well, youtube was working just fine for me.

And, come to think of it, so was the piece. Which, far from being "nonsense," was a clearly and rather simply constructed piece. With melody (OK, maybe strictly speaking 'motifs', you know like that other German guy. Ludwig) and harmony (if by "harmony" you allow "simultaneous sounding of sounds") and rhythm--this should be indisputable--and structure (which should also be indisputable, since it's pretty simple--couple of those motifs repeated in various ways (louder, softer, different timbre).

As for being serious, are you serious? This is not a serious thread, one. And jessop's question was for Simula, not for M. Croche, so where is the compulsion for M. Croche to answer it "seriously"?

Also, three, what was not "serious" about M. Croche's answer? What's unserious is failing to recognize that melody, harmony, rhythm, and structure are present in all music, even the music that you, personally, do not like. Very frivolous of you to have chosen such essential, such basic, such ubiquitous elements as your personal without which nothing. If you had been serious, you would have chosen some elements that are present in the music you prefer but not in the music you don't.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

electronic nonsense

Aside from it being a pioneering work in the world of tape music and also a structurally sound composition with interesting development and variation of ideas interspersed with moments of silence.......'nonsense' would be a reflection of yourself rather than of the music.

[Karl Henning]

I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but Stockhausen is the greatest composer since Beethoven.

Hold onto those little dreams!

[Karl Henning]

^^^See, I predicted this*^^^ ... yawn.

..."But if you are as youthfully zealous about Stockhausen, or merely a little OCD about him -- and or good ole' Luigi -- regardless of your age, then there ya go, i.e. such wholesale and absolute statements will pour forth, be said with force, and repeatedly."

*P.s. you might want to look up Argument / Proof by assertion, lol.

Quite 

[Mandryka]

Well, youtube was working just fine for me.

And, come to think of it, so was the piece. Which, far from being "nonsense," was a clearly and rather simply constructed piece. With melody (OK, maybe strictly speaking 'motifs', you know like that other German guy. Ludwig) and harmony (if by "harmony" you allow "simultaneous sounding of sounds") and rhythm--this should be indisputable--and structure (which should also be indisputable, since it's pretty simple--couple of those motifs repeated in various ways (louder, softer, different timbre).

As for being serious, are you serious? This is not a serious thread, one. And jessop's question was for Simula, not for M. Croche, so where is the compulsion for M. Croche to answer it "seriously"?

Also, three, what was not "serious" about M. Croche's answer? What's unserious is failing to recognize that melody, harmony, rhythm, and structure are present in all music, even the music that you, personally, do not like. Very frivolous of you to have chosen such essential, such basic, such ubiquitous elements as your personal without which nothing. If you had been serious, you would have chosen some elements that are present in the music you prefer but not in the music you don't.

One interesting thing about that piece is that it's a piano etude!

[James]

I don't even like his music, but he is perhaps the greatest composer since Beethoven... that is to say, the innovative genius Stockhausen.

Hardly. The 20th century wasn't that innovative compared to prior eras in music. The Romantic era was a time of great innovation/exploration. Start with Wagner. While Stockhausen certainly had his own very bold voice and had a deeply probing musical intellect regarding all facets of music, pushing things .. in the end, perhaps his greatest contribution to music was his development of electronic music, and his use of time & space .. as realized at a high level in his best work.

[Karl Henning]

. . . But if you are as youthfully zealous about Stockhausen, or merely a little OCD about him -- and or good ole' Luigi -- regardless of your age, then there ya go, i.e. such wholesale and absolute statements will pour forth, be said with force, and repeatedly.

Truly nothing wrong with these enthusiasms, and a great many of us have, in our enthusiasm, conflated "Gosh, I am so excited by the music of N." with "N. is the Greatest Composer Since Beethoven."

If the enthusiasm for Stockhausen lasts for longer than 48 months, though, the sufferer should consider medical advice.  It may indicate a more fundamental reasoning disorder 

[PerfectWagnerite]

Isn't there already a Stockhausen thread in the Composer section?

[Scion7]

Unfortunately.