"Sibelius, the Worst Composer in the World"

Started by Brian, August 18, 2016, 03:17:43 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Madiel

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on September 19, 2016, 03:47:02 PM
Please let's not jump the rails, here. Nowhere am I suggesting censorship. ::)

No, you're just suggesting moral dressing down of those who don't engage in Sibelian hagiography.

I agree with those who don't feel the need to react to the description of Sibelius as the worst composer by going for the opposite extreme and declaring him faultless.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: ørfeø on September 19, 2016, 09:52:49 PM
No, you're just suggesting moral dressing down of those who don't engage in Sibelian hagiography.

Name chapter and verse where I suggested that.

QuoteI agree with those who don't feel the need to react to the description of Sibelius as the worst composer by going for the opposite extreme and declaring him faultless.

Name chapter and verse where I "declare Sibelius faultless".


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

knight66

I have asked that this acusatory conversation should stop. I am now locking it and when I reopen it, any continuation of the 'He said, did not say' will be deleted.

Knight
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

knight66

Good morning everyone from the UK. I am reopening this topic.

Flurin has retranslated the original quote from the opening of the thread and would like to post it. I ask that we rememeber the rules. Some excessive directness is allowed on the Diner topics, for example in the political discussions. But on the music board please stick to the rules and do not become acusatory.

Also, this is not an 'in praise of Sibelius' topic. It is a discussion of a polemical piece about the composer, the man who wrote it and the composer. People are perfectly in order to express how they feel about any of these things. If anone distorts the thread unduly, let the moderators know.

Thanks,

Knight
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Karl Henning

I come to bury Sibelius, not to praise him....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

zamyrabyrd

"...not that I loved Sibelius less, but that I loved Rome more".
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one."

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

king ubu

#126
Quote from: knight66 on September 20, 2016, 10:49:51 PM
Flurin has retranslated the original quote from the opening of the thread and would like to post it.

Thanks Mike - I actually re-worked Brian's translation, wouldn't have managed starting from scratch (or it would have taken me ages).

I hope a few are interested in this - here you go (link fixed, thanks Karl!):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2yu4o123ks99i5/Leibowitz_OnSibelius.pdf?dl=0
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Karl Henning

Quote from: king ubu on September 21, 2016, 01:13:25 AM
Thanks Mike - I actually re-worked Brian's translation, wouldn't have managed starting from scratch (or it would have taken me ages).

I hope a few are interested in this - here you go:
https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=Leibowitz_OnSibelius.pdf

That link is /home, and so does not point any of us to your file  0:)

(I land at my own DropBox, where there is no such file, e.g.)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

king ubu

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on September 21, 2016, 01:16:26 AM
That link is /home, and so does not point any of us to your file  0:)

(I land at my own DropBox, where there is no such file, e.g.)
That's what you get from posting in a hurry at the office - should be fine now, thanks for the alert!
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Karl Henning

Quote from: king ubu on September 21, 2016, 01:59:38 AM
That's what you get from posting in a hurry at the office - should be fine now, thanks for the alert!

I'm here for you, buddy.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Brian

Quote from: king ubu on September 21, 2016, 01:13:25 AM
Thanks Mike - I actually re-worked Brian's translation, wouldn't have managed starting from scratch (or it would have taken me ages).

I hope a few are interested in this - here you go (link fixed, thanks Karl!):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2yu4o123ks99i5/Leibowitz_OnSibelius.pdf?dl=0
Oh, I feel bad that I never replied to your PM! But of course the answer was please do share, and I really appreciate your help. :)

king ubu

Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

jochanaan

Time to weigh in, briefly. 8)

Speaking as an orchestral player who has actually played music by Sibelius, he is one of the greats.  In addition to all the other qualities associated with a great composer, he writes very well for all the instruments in the orchestra, and his dynamic scoring (the way he uses varying loud/soft indications) is second to none, not even Mahler or Ravel.  All an orchestra and conductor need is to play his markings exactly as written, and it will be a great performance. 8)
Imagination + discipline = creativity

knight66

I am not going to get into an argument about the quality of the Violin Concerto; just point out that the violin was Sibelius's instrument. He owned and played one. It is currently played professionally by his granddaughter.  He had a piano, but did not use it for composition. He composed away from either instrument. It is perhaps surprising he did not write more where the violin is especially highlighted.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

jochanaan

Quote from: knight66 on September 21, 2016, 10:14:53 PM
...It is perhaps surprising he did not write more where the violin is especially highlighted.
The string parts in his orchestral works are always brilliant and very idiomatic.  I would say that violins are "featured" in almost everything he wrote. 8)
Imagination + discipline = creativity

Ghost Sonata

thanks, Mike & Jochanaan!  :)  I knew the violin was Sibelius' instrument but the rest was all news I can muse over! 
I like Conor71's "I  like old Music" signature.

knight66

Quote from: jochanaan on September 22, 2016, 08:03:06 AM
The string parts in his orchestral works are always brilliant and very idiomatic.  I would say that violins are "featured" in almost everything he wrote. 8)

Yes, I was ambiguous, what I meant was more solo violin works, but then, just because I don't know them does not mean they don't exist. I found this item and it describes his relationship with the violin.

http://www.sibelius.fi/english/musiikki/kamari_viulu_piano.htm


Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Brian

BUMP

I revised my translation somewhat, sent it off to Dave Hurwitz, and he obligingly - even enthusiastically - included it in his video series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBVwts7mQzI

Mirror Image

Quote from: Brian on December 20, 2020, 09:56:36 AM
BUMP

I revised my translation somewhat, sent it off to Dave Hurwitz, and he obligingly - even enthusiastically - included it in his video series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBVwts7mQzI

A fine way to feed a troll. :-\

Carxofes fregides

QuoteHe had a piano, but did not use it for composition. He composed away from either instrument.
It kind of shows, doesn't it? The writing of his Sonata feels somewhat crude compared to his usual fare. It's still rather fun to play, though, with its merry mood (is it me or does it feel rather Christmas-ish?).