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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #160 on: July 17, 2021, 07:41:01 PM »
One thing you wanna be careful about when you get deeper into studying this is just to make sure you question every little part of it, because there is plenty of stuff out there that is theories built on theories which end up in systems that you can't really verify at all.

For example, now that you are getting into cognitive functions, there's this idea on the internet that "looping" is a sign of unhealth, which is super ridiculous. (Looping is having either two extroverted or two introverted functions togethers as your main type- ex. Ne/Fe, Ti/Si, etc.)

In the Objective Personality System they realized that was BS. They typed me as Ni/Fi (introverted intuition + introverted feeling).

In cognitive function theory, some people can get confused which two functions they are using because of this. Because in MBTI, there are 16 types, but in cognitive functions there are 32 possibilities, and if you end up like me, using two introverted functions primarily, then it just won't translate well.


Regardless, still thinking more highly of the enneagram lately, as it's a system that really cuts to the core. MBTI, functions, etc. are interesting but more of a side effect from what you have to do to achieve your core values (which is what the enneagram is about). It's like the master system, everything else is just an extension from there.

I would be very surprised if you weren't a type 5, seems pretty obvious. But not sure which wing you'd be, I guess if it's 4 then you value freedom/authenticity/creativity more, if it's 6 then you value security/safety/support more. And you can also have a tritype which can really explain things even better. You might have 1 in your tritype, you are probably extremely similar to my type.

Well, maybe I check out Enneagrams at some point, but it takes me a lot of effort to get into these "systems" with their own code language. It is not the logic, it is the language that is hard for me. "Type 5" means nothing to me before I have connected a meaning to it in my head, and creating those arbitrary connections take time, because "type 5" could mean ANYTHING. Car tire size, army tent type, electric socket type, mental disorder type and I am sure "type 5" means many things in different contexts, but for me it always means tiresome memorizing to learn such arbitrary code language. MBTI types where complete mumbo jumbo for long, but I learned them (fortunately there are some logic which help a lot). I prefer systems where things are labeled logically so that there is not need to memorize labels. When all labels are similar and arbitrary I struggle a lot, because there are no ways for association. For example labels

A1222
99C22
7G99S
S3398

Are similar and arbitrary, but labels

Norway-ed-1003
Denmark-22
Sweden-Finland-Estonia-Multi-888
Netherlands-revised-AFG2

Are less similar and more descriptive. It is very easy to learn "Denmark-22" means something concerning Denmark and not Norway.

The good thing about my* INTJ/INTP confusion is I have to think these things a lot. It may take me months or even years to arrive to the deeper understanding of these things, but at least the answers are our there waiting for me. It is super-nice to know there is a "user's manual" for my mind and all I need to do is to select the correct manual out of 16 or 32 or whatever...

* well, a lot of people seem to have the same struggle. I think this is caused by projecting multidimensional data into lesser dimensions. Data gets distorted. For me the idea that someone is 100 % INTJ or 100 % INTP is crazy. A lot of stuff that applies to typical INTJ and INTP applies to me so this is like building up the manual for my mind. Together INTJs and INTPs make up about 5 % of all people, so it is comforting for me to know one in 20 people have a mind that operates somewhat similarly to mine. It makes me feel less of an alien from outer space.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #161 on: July 18, 2021, 02:49:56 AM »
INTJs - getting things done is more important than absolute truth.
INTPs - absolute truth is more important than getting things done.

Someone said: "I am an INTJ when I'm working and I need to get things done, but when I relax I become an INTP".

Maybe it is all about mental flexibility? Maybe INTPs and INTJs are mentally flexible in the J <---> P direction, but not on other directions?

I took a "INTJ or INTP?" test at IDRlabs.com and the result was consistent to prior results: 53 % INTJ and 47 % INTP.

So, I have to just accept I am mostly an INTJ, but I also have a lot of INTP in me. I am a collection of INTP-like INTJ traits and INTJ-like INTP-traits. Traits that are most common/compatible to these personality types. I can't do some of the things only "true" INTPs can do such as building a huge library of knowledge inside mind, nor am I a "true" INTJ who gets everything done effectively and fast. I can build a small library of relevant knowledge in my mind and I get things done eventually in reasonable time. The INTP in me wanted to keep researching this ad nauseum, but the INTJ in me is now ready to call this issue clarified so I can move on.  ;D

« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 06:20:23 AM by 71 dB »
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

Offline greg

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #162 on: July 18, 2021, 03:23:40 PM »
Well, maybe I check out Enneagrams at some point, but it takes me a lot of effort to get into these "systems" with their own code language. It is not the logic, it is the language that is hard for me. "Type 5" means nothing to me before I have connected a meaning to it in my head, and creating those arbitrary connections take time, because "type 5" could mean ANYTHING. Car tire size, army tent type, electric socket type, mental disorder type and I am sure "type 5" means many things in different contexts, but for me it always means tiresome memorizing to learn such arbitrary code language. MBTI types where complete mumbo jumbo for long, but I learned them (fortunately there are some logic which help a lot). I prefer systems where things are labeled logically so that there is not need to memorize labels. When all labels are similar and arbitrary I struggle a lot, because there are no ways for association. For example labels

A1222
99C22
7G99S
S3398

Are similar and arbitrary, but labels

Norway-ed-1003
Denmark-22
Sweden-Finland-Estonia-Multi-888
Netherlands-revised-AFG2

Are less similar and more descriptive. It is very easy to learn "Denmark-22" means something concerning Denmark and not Norway.
Right, for sure. It takes time to learn them. There are nicknames that help- Type 5 is commonly referred to as "The Investigator," for example, but overall I prefer to just read about the exact meaning of the type (which is their core fear/desire) and then later get a feel for each type combination by reading about them (triads, wings, subtypes, etc.).

But yeah, I'm probably incomprehensible at this point, I have the feeling that your curiosity will eventually lead here (especially if you are a type 5 "Investigator" like me), so this info is for later lol.  :P






The good thing about my* INTJ/INTP confusion is I have to think these things a lot. It may take me months or even years to arrive to the deeper understanding of these things, but at least the answers are our there waiting for me. It is super-nice to know there is a "user's manual" for my mind and all I need to do is to select the correct manual out of 16 or 32 or whatever...

* well, a lot of people seem to have the same struggle. I think this is caused by projecting multidimensional data into lesser dimensions. Data gets distorted. For me the idea that someone is 100 % INTJ or 100 % INTP is crazy. A lot of stuff that applies to typical INTJ and INTP applies to me so this is like building up the manual for my mind. Together INTJs and INTPs make up about 5 % of all people, so it is comforting for me to know one in 20 people have a mind that operates somewhat similarly to mine. It makes me feel less of an alien from outer space.
You are definitely getting a good understanding already.

Example: Objective Personality System has 512 types (probably the most out of any typing system), so sometimes people are extremely similar when they have the same type. More dimensions = more accuracy (that you can't get with a 16-type system). But you can only go so far, since everyone is unique. But it's cool to get a really close estimate.

There are two people I have talked to that have the same type as me (out of 512), so with a system that deep you'd expect other (smaller) systems to match up... but there are still small differences- they said they both type as Enneagram type 5, but their wing (which you can think of as a sort of secondary type) is the 6 wing while mine is the 4 wing. So my conclusion is that their reasons for using the cognitive functions tend to be a bit different...




INTJs - getting things done is more important than absolute truth.
INTPs - absolute truth is more important than getting things done.

Someone said: "I am an INTJ when I'm working and I need to get things done, but when I relax I become an INTP".

Maybe it is all about mental flexibility? Maybe INTPs and INTJs are mentally flexible in the J <---> P direction, but not on other directions?

I took a "INTJ or INTP?" test at IDRlabs.com and the result was consistent to prior results: 53 % INTJ and 47 % INTP.

So, I have to just accept I am mostly an INTJ, but I also have a lot of INTP in me. I am a collection of INTP-like INTJ traits and INTJ-like INTP-traits. Traits that are most common/compatible to these personality types. I can't do some of the things only "true" INTPs can do such as building a huge library of knowledge inside mind, nor am I a "true" INTJ who gets everything done effectively and fast. I can build a small library of relevant knowledge in my mind and I get things done eventually in reasonable time. The INTP in me wanted to keep researching this ad nauseum, but the INTJ in me is now ready to call this issue clarified so I can move on.  ;D



Yeah, same for me pretty much. I've been through this line of thought. Though for me the Thinking/Feeling tended to also be closer to balanced, so same issue there.

"INTPs can do such as building a huge library of knowledge inside mind" - Ti function
"INTJ who gets everything done effectively and fast" - Te function

So if you really wanted to settle only one type, you just gotta know which one you are so comfortable with that you don't even realize you're doing it, but you're doing it all the time. The other one may be more conscious and reasonably comfortable, but it isn't autopilot.
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Offline greg

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #163 on: July 18, 2021, 05:57:46 PM »
I may have thought this way long ago, but at some point in life people may stop and ask why certain things didn't go as they should have gone or why does the struggles continue despite all the efforts of overcoming them. There personality types seem to help people to understand themselves better and give some peace of mind: There are other people out there with identical struggles and feelings.
Yeah, the challenge of describing what is going wrong, and resolving it, is not having enough labels, actually.

There are only so many things listed as personality disorders (I think it's only 12 types?) yet if you have any major issues outside that, people won't have any idea what is wrong, or they won't believe you, or just can't help because it hasn't been studied (who studies stuff that isn't even labeled yet?).

If you have something like bipolar, narcissism, autism, depression, etc. then at least there are names for them and they are well understood, studied, etc.

I still have not found a name for what used to be my big problem. I described it to my parents again today and they said it sounds like being "stir crazy." Like being one of those hyperactive dog breeds but is cruelly locked in a kennel all day. But for me it was entirely at work, I've only heard of people experiencing that at home- but working from home is the best solution that has worked because at least I'm around so many different forms of entertainment to distract me from the boredom.

But I've never heard of or known anyone that gets nearly as messed up as I did working a boring job, people's temperaments are different. Now that I have been working from home for a year, suddenly I don't see any traces of this "disorder" at all.

Imagine being so EXTREMELY bored and EXTREMELY restless at the same time all day, every day, to the point it's so bad that you'd rather just jump in traffic, or maybe see something shocking so it takes the numbness away temporarily. I would have appreciated if there was a label associated with people that have a strong tendency for that.

There is a test called "AnimalInYou" and my results were eagle and fox is also close. Not animals that are okay with being locked in cages.
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Offline greg

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #164 on: July 18, 2021, 07:24:35 PM »
Yeah, the challenge of describing what is going wrong, and resolving it, is not having enough labels, actually.
I just googled about fidgeting and found a label that is quite close to what I was experiencing strongly for 8 years:
https://www.healthline.com/health/agitated-depression

We might have to go back to office at work in a few months and when I'm there I do still feel it, but the feeling is the mild spice in comparison to any type of service industry job, where the feeling is extreme spice.

The thing that has helped most for an office job is getting up and going walking around the building frequently. Especially to go out and get an energy drink, the sweet sweet dopamine rush of going for the hunt tends to have a positive mood boost that lasts a while.

This problem probably extends far more than I think, for example, the fidgeting and possible restless leg (years ago my parents noticed that while sleeping, but no way of knowing if that's a problem or not still).

One of the best feelings ever was walking freely in Japan, it is like the pure opposite of this "agitated depression" feeling. Getting some freedom outside of the cage that society and work traps you in!  0:)
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #165 on: July 19, 2021, 02:37:05 PM »
You are definitely getting a good understanding already.

Example: Objective Personality System has 512 types (probably the most out of any typing system), so sometimes people are extremely similar when they have the same type. More dimensions = more accuracy (that you can't get with a 16-type system). But you can only go so far, since everyone is unique. But it's cool to get a really close estimate.

There are two people I have talked to that have the same type as me (out of 512), so with a system that deep you'd expect other (smaller) systems to match up... but there are still small differences- they said they both type as Enneagram type 5, but their wing (which you can think of as a sort of secondary type) is the 6 wing while mine is the 4 wing. So my conclusion is that their reasons for using the cognitive functions tend to be a bit different...

Well, understanding things like this SHOULD be rather easy for me if I am an INTJ/P.  ;)

512 types sounds very accurate, but how accurately do we need to know our personality type? Ultimately there are 8 billion personality types on this planet including you and me. The good thing about 16 personality types is it describes people accurately enough so that people can understand themselves and others better, but still find a lot of information about their type. I'm sure my personality type out of those 512 is something very rare (something living in the border of INTJ and INTP in MBTI). Combining INTJ and INTP means one out of 20 people is "similar" to me (corresponds well my real life experiences), but perhaps only one out of 256-1024* people would have the same OPS type so I would feel more "alien". In this sense 16 types feels a good compromise between accuracy and generality.

* assuming my type is 2 times more or less common or something in between compared to average type.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #166 on: July 19, 2021, 03:01:11 PM »
My personality is of the curmudgeon variety. ;) ;D
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Offline greg

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #167 on: July 19, 2021, 04:51:50 PM »
The most interesting thing I've seen recently is the "coping mechanisms of each enneagram type."

I've realized that this might be actually be the easiest way to type others, because it can be hard to type people's core motivations from an external perspective- none of us are mind readers. But if we see someone habitually use any of these coping mechanisms, it may point to their type.


These feel very accurate. I could preach all day about the wonders of isolation/compartmentalizing your life.  :P

They also feel accurate when relating to people I know who I convinced to take the enneagram test lol.

Still trying to understand "introjection" and "reaction formation" a bit more, I get the idea but hopefully will understand more once seeing it "in the wild." Reason why, is that 4 and 1 are the other parts of my tritype, so I wonder if these coping mechanism also extend to your tritype, or if they are just your main type.

Quote
Ones: Reaction Formation

Reaction Formation is a defense mechanism by which individuals reduce or try to eliminate anxiety caused by their own thoughts, feelings, or behaviors that they consider unacceptable by responding in a manner that is the exact opposite of their real responses. The One’s active inner critic dictates what is acceptable based on social mores, contextual expectations, and moral principles, and reaction formation becomes a defensive remedy when Ones experience what they deem “unacceptable” reactions. A subtle example often seen in Ones is when they dislike someone yet are especially nice and polite to this person. A more blatant example – one that is not exclusive to Enneagram style Ones – is an individual who crusades against corporate corruption, only to be discovered later as having embezzled money from the organization.

Twos: Repression

Repression is a defense mechanism by which individuals hide information about themselves from themselves – for example, feelings, desires, wishes, aversions, fears, and needs – that are too difficult to acknowledge consciously. However, the repressed information doesn’t disappear; instead, expression of the repressed data is controlled or held down while it continues to influence the individual’s behavior. For example, Twos may feel anxious and need reassurance, but they may be only minimally aware of this. Instead of exploring these feelings or seeking comfort, the Two reassures another person who appears to be in distress.

Threes: Identification

Identification is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously incorporates attributes and characteristics of another person into his or her own personality and sense of self. Identification is a way of bolstering one’s self-esteem by forming an imaginary or real alliance with an admired person, then taking on that person’s characteristics. When Threes model their own behavior after someone else or the idea they have of someone, they are usually not aware they are doing so. For this reason, it becomes complicated for them to untangle who they really are from this image. In particular, Threes identify most with images of individuals who are admired in the Three’s desired social context, and the image with which Threes identify often changes as their context changes.

Fours: Introjection

Introjection is a counter-intuitive defense mechanism. Instead of repelling critical information and negative experiences that can cause a person anxiety or pain, individuals introject the information – that is, they fully absorb, internalize, and incorporate these data into their sense of self. Fritz Perls, the father of Gestalt Therapy, refers to this phenomenon as swallowing something whole without being able to differentiate between information that is true from information that is untrue. Fours introject negative information – and repel positive data – about themselves as a way of coping with painful information and neutralizing external threats. They prefer to deal with self-inflicted damage rather than having to respond to criticism or rejection from others.

Fives: Isolation

Isolation occurs in Fives as a way for them to avoid feeling overwhelmed and empty. Fives isolate themselves by retreating into their minds, cutting themselves off from their feelings, and compartmentalizing – that is, isolating each part of themselves from the whole or the related parts. For example, Fives separate their thoughts from their feelings and/or feelings from behaviors, as well as separating their personal and work lives. Fives may also isolate themselves from other people and separate their relationships so that their friends never meet one another; in fact, some Fives even have secret lives.

Sixes: Projection

Projection is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals unconsciously attribute their own unacceptable, unwanted, or disowned thoughts, emotions, motivations, attributes, and/or behaviors to others. While the projection may be positive, negative, or neutral, it occurs because the individuals who are projecting perceive the projected attributes as difficult to acknowledge or threatening to believe about themselves. Because Sixes make these attributions unconsciously, they imagine that they are true, although at a deeper level they are not entirely certain about this. Although Sixes use projection as a way to create some certainty and thus reduce their anxiety in ambiguous, uncertain, or potentially dangerous situations, these projections – particularly if they are negative in nature – ironically raise the Six’s anxiety level. In addition, when Sixes project either something negative or positive that is untrue, they create a false reality without knowing they are doing so.

Sevens: Rationalization

Rationalization is a defense mechanism by which individuals explain unacceptable thoughts, feelings, and behaviors in a way that entirely avoids or obscures their true motivations, intentions, or the effects of the behavior. When Sevens rationalize, they do so by positive reframing, justifying their behavior by explaining it in highly positive terms. Sevens use reframing to avoid pain, discomfort, sadness, guilt, and anxiety, as well as to avoid taking personal responsibility for what has occurred.

Eights: Denial

Denial is a defense mechanism by which individuals unconsciously negate something that makes them feel anxious by disavowing its very existence. These can include thoughts, feelings, wishes, sensations, needs, and other external factors that are unacceptable to the Eight for some reason. Denial comes in a variety of forms. A person may deny the reality of the unpleasant information altogether, admit that something is true but deny or minimize its seriousness, or admit that both the information and its severity are true but deny any personal responsibility for it.

Nines: Narcotization

Narcotization is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals unconsciously numb themselves to avoid something that feels too large, complex, difficult, or uncomfortable to handle. Nines narcotize and distract themselves by engaging in prolonged rhythmic activities that are familiar, require very little attention, and provide comfort – for example, washing the dishes; working in the garden; continuous pleasure reading of books by the same author or within the same genre; going for a walk or a bike ride; engaging in frequent or extended casual conversations; or continuously changing channels on the TV. Nines also use daily routines such as morning or evening rituals to immunize themselves from being fully aware, and they feel agitated, irritated, or disoriented when these repetitive activities become disrupted.


My personality is of the curmudgeon variety. ;) ;D
That word just reminds me of custard every single time I see it for some reason. Now I will always associate custard with you.  :P ;D
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #168 on: July 19, 2021, 06:24:22 PM »
That word just reminds me of custard every single time I see it for some reason. Now I will always associate custard with you.  :P ;D

Hah! :P I guess it’s better than being called an asshole. :)
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Offline greg

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #169 on: July 19, 2021, 09:16:00 PM »
Random observation, but I recently realized that the album I made you listen to is probably referencing the enneagram.

Holy Origin by Vestals...

Thinking of sending the singer a message to see, because I google "Holy Origin" and only the enneagram comes up.

There is idea of virtuous spiritual qualities for each type, a "holy idea."

For type 4 it's this one:
Type 4: Holy Origin (Equanimity) means that in the original state of being, whole and complete connection exists in each moment with nothing of substance or importance missing. Being in this oneness of all creates inner calm. Complete harmony exists with what is present (termed “equanimity




Btw you probably don't care to look it up but I'd guess you are a 9, leaning toward 9w8.

I know no one cares, but thought to write a note anyways.  :P
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #170 on: July 20, 2021, 03:55:25 AM »
Fives: Isolation

Isolation occurs in Fives as a way for them to avoid feeling overwhelmed and empty. Fives isolate themselves by retreating into their minds, cutting themselves off from their feelings, and compartmentalizing – that is, isolating each part of themselves from the whole or the related parts. For example, Fives separate their thoughts from their feelings and/or feelings from behaviors, as well as separating their personal and work lives. Fives may also isolate themselves from other people and separate their relationships so that their friends never meet one another; in fact, some Fives even have secret lives.


Sounds right. I hated my job (not so much because the tasks, but because psychopath bosses) so I totally isolated work from my personal life. My feelings are a separate thing from my logical thinking. I feel things by listening to music, watching movies and enjoying art. Meanwhile my rational side is processing ideas like space being imaginary entropy. I even have "secret lives" in the sense that I only tell a certain type of information about myself to certain type of people and groups. It is like having permission tags with everything: This information can be told to this person or this group of people based on how other people and groups communicate with each other. So, I have kind of told everything about myself to the World, but the information is scattered all over the planet so nobody can can know everything about me. My huge problem is the fear of creation of social nets connecting people who know something about me so that they can figure me out better. Of course most information can be revealed to anyone such as me liking Elgar and Spielberg's movies, but then there are dark secrets which are known hardly anyone. Sometimes I may go too far and tell too much of myself (permission tag mismanagement).

I am more and more convinced I was born an INTJ, but the World hasn't been kind in allowing me be one. INTJs have goals. For me reaching goals in life has been a constant struggle and if I have reached some goals, they have turned out to be something else I anticipated them to be (my job with psychopath bosses being one example). So, all the obstacles the World has thrown on me has eventually made me question if it I even should have goals. Why have goals, if it all leads to misery if anything? The World is clearly more interested in supporting and helping extroverts to reach their goals in life while offering obstacles for us ultra-introverts as everything is about social games! What does social media offer to introverts? For extroverts it offers the opportunity to be an influencer. Good luck having more than 50 followers in social media if you are an introvert!

So, The World has pushed me away from having goals and even dreams. Well, INTPs don't have goals, so that's why I must have adopted a lot of INTP identity and even thougth processes. If I can't reach my goals and dreams in the external World, I can always "simulate" them in my mind.
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and less tiresome in headphone listening.

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #171 on: July 20, 2021, 07:43:35 AM »
Yeah, same for me pretty much. I've been through this line of thought. Though for me the Thinking/Feeling tended to also be closer to balanced, so same issue there.

"INTPs can do such as building a huge library of knowledge inside mind" - Ti function
"INTJ who gets everything done effectively and fast" - Te function

So if you really wanted to settle only one type, you just gotta know which one you are so comfortable with that you don't even realize you're doing it, but you're doing it all the time. The other one may be more conscious and reasonably comfortable, but it isn't autopilot.

Sorry about responding drop by drop, but I am a bit low energy because of the INSANE heatwave we had in Finland, but it cooler now.

I think I was very comfortable with being an INTJ in my youth when my life was mostly good and achieving goals (such as getting good grades at school with hard work) felt possible. I really believed I can go far in life and achieve a lot, but I was very naive. I didn't know my personality type puts me in disadvantaged position. I didn't know how cruel/unfair the World can be. After high school the World kind of revealed its ugly face and started "throwing rocks" at me. Suddenly the demands to achieve goals started looking increasingly impossible. The result is it is not very easy for me to be comfortable with anything. Maybe being a half INTJ and half INTP is the best compromise I can come up with? I think if my life started giving more (such as a good job I enjoy + more recognition for my skills and knowledge) I could "go back" being a full INTJ, but it is difficult to be one if you almost never achieve anything.

One of the best things in my life in recent years has been getting into music theory and learning that stuff myself. That helps being INTJ. It is knowledge I can USE, put in action. Create better music. That is a form of self-expression which is beneficial for INTJs because it allows using Extroverted Thinking to work on tertiary Introverted Feeling and inferior Extroverted Sensing which normally are pushed back in an INTJ mind. It is INTJ way of being a little extroverted at least some way. However, getting into music theory took insane amount of years. School teached me nothing about it. Astonishingly I was able to walk for decades on this planet without ever encountering information about music theory to make me have a "ahaa!" moment. I walked in darkness wondering why A-minor (natural) and C-major scales are two different things despite of having the exact same "white" notes in them. Nobody ever told me notes on a scale have different functions which instantly explains the difference. All of this changed when I happened to see a Youtube video by Ray Harmony analysing The Prodigy's new song and I got a half "ahaa!" moment a little later causing a massive "ahaa!" moment when I saw a couple of videos about (church) modes by Youtuber Jake Lizzio. Finally someone told me the notes on a scale are not equal! Recently I watched tons of videos by "Dr. B", Dr. Christopher Brellochs. 4-part writing etc. Some people learn this stuff when they are 15. I learn it at age 50.  ;D

Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

Offline 71 dB

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  • I'm not insensitive. I'm an INTJ/P.
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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #172 on: July 20, 2021, 08:06:04 AM »
I just googled about fidgeting and found a label that is quite close to what I was experiencing strongly for 8 years:
https://www.healthline.com/health/agitated-depression

We might have to go back to office at work in a few months and when I'm there I do still feel it, but the feeling is the mild spice in comparison to any type of service industry job, where the feeling is extreme spice.

The thing that has helped most for an office job is getting up and going walking around the building frequently. Especially to go out and get an energy drink, the sweet sweet dopamine rush of going for the hunt tends to have a positive mood boost that lasts a while.

This problem probably extends far more than I think, for example, the fidgeting and possible restless leg (years ago my parents noticed that while sleeping, but no way of knowing if that's a problem or not still).

One of the best feelings ever was walking freely in Japan, it is like the pure opposite of this "agitated depression" feeling. Getting some freedom outside of the cage that society and work traps you in!  0:)

I don't think I suffer from agitated depression. I am not a "nail-biter". I am more of a calm cynic. My first thought reading this is maybe freelancing is your thing? Maybe such way of working could provide enough "freedom from cages" to you?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

Offline greg

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #173 on: July 20, 2021, 11:13:05 AM »
Sounds right. I hated my job (not so much because the tasks, but because psychopath bosses) so I totally isolated work from my personal life. My feelings are a separate thing from my logical thinking. I feel things by listening to music, watching movies and enjoying art. Meanwhile my rational side is processing ideas like space being imaginary entropy. I even have "secret lives" in the sense that I only tell a certain type of information about myself to certain type of people and groups. It is like having permission tags with everything: This information can be told to this person or this group of people based on how other people and groups communicate with each other. So, I have kind of told everything about myself to the World, but the information is scattered all over the planet so nobody can can know everything about me. My huge problem is the fear of creation of social nets connecting people who know something about me so that they can figure me out better. Of course most information can be revealed to anyone such as me liking Elgar and Spielberg's movies, but then there are dark secrets which are known hardly anyone. Sometimes I may go too far and tell too much of myself (permission tag mismanagement).
Would be nice to be able to delete everything from the internet!  :D


I am more and more convinced I was born an INTJ, but the World hasn't been kind in allowing me be one. INTJs have goals. For me reaching goals in life has been a constant struggle and if I have reached some goals, they have turned out to be something else I anticipated them to be (my job with psychopath bosses being one example). So, all the obstacles the World has thrown on me has eventually made me question if it I even should have goals. Why have goals, if it all leads to misery if anything? The World is clearly more interested in supporting and helping extroverts to reach their goals in life while offering obstacles for us ultra-introverts as everything is about social games! What does social media offer to introverts? For extroverts it offers the opportunity to be an influencer. Good luck having more than 50 followers in social media if you are an introvert!

So, The World has pushed me away from having goals and even dreams. Well, INTPs don't have goals, so that's why I must have adopted a lot of INTP identity and even thougth processes. If I can't reach my goals and dreams in the external World, I can always "simulate" them in my mind.
Oh yeah, I get it about the goals problem.
For me the only difference seems to simply be the necessity of working full time always getting in the way of my goals (rather than social issues).

I've had several specific goals for the last 18-20 years and they haven't changed. I planned to get them over with over 10 years ago, but really only got one completed so far. Why? Because of working from home with because of Covid- that's the only reason I even got the time for it. I did it mostly during work hours, and my job usually isn't very busy at all.

When I get home from work, the last thing I want to do is commit my only 3 hours towards a goal which I might not be in the mood for. If I'm not in the mood to do something, I simply can't concentrate at all, it's nearly impossible.

But if I'm working on a personal project for 8 hours a day during morning-afternoon- like a 9-5 work day, I can concentrate on it. Problem is, doing these personal projects don't pay the bills. So all of your energy is sucked into paying the bills and none of it left is oriented towards goals. So it makes me wish I never developed any dreams to begin with when I was the age of 13-15.

So I get that, thinking you are a P(erceiver) when you might be a J(udger). Maybe slightly different causes for me, but same result.
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

Offline greg

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Re: Personality Types
« Reply #174 on: August 14, 2021, 09:52:22 AM »
Found a good one.
What causes stress based on your enneagram type?
https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/what-causes-stress-based-on-your-enneagram-type

Quote
1. The Reformer: Feeling irresponsible.
2. The Helper: Compulsive self-sacrificing.
3. The Achiever: Not getting approval.
4. The Individualist: Being misunderstood.
5. The Investigator: Not enough alone time.
6. The Loyalist: Anxiety about the future.
7. The Enthusiast: Overcommitting.
8. The Challenger: Refusing to slow down.
9. The Peacemaker: Making decisions.

I believe it's correct, because out of all of them:
#5 is the top for me, and #4 is second place.

and since I always type as 5w4, this fits 100%.

So if you want to know your enneagram type, you could probably choose the top two or three from this list and have a good idea.



Just a side thought, but in regards to political discussions online, it really is a major pet peeve when people completely misrepresent what you're saying and take the worst, ugliest possible interpretation and throw it at you as a personal attack. If you are an enneagram type 4 it will very much not be appreciated, with the stress point of being misunderstood.
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie