Louis Couperin

Started by Mandryka, October 05, 2016, 09:44:34 AM

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milk

Quote from: Mandryka on December 05, 2019, 10:21:03 PM
No not English, If you listen to English musicians like Egarr, Davitt Moroney and Colin Booth, they're not really like him in the later recordings. Still less so Mahan Esfahani and Thurston Dart.

Tilney wrote a book on the unmeasured prelude. If you look at Alessandrini's notes on Louis Couperin he has some interesting things to say about these preludes, which he basically thinks are a bit like toccatas in Frescobaldi's Bk 2 - several different sections each of which has its own emotional feel.
Right. I was probably thinking of some silly caricature of Englishness. Is Mahan Esfahani good in this genre? I should check him out. And I need to listen more to Alessandrini too. I've never gotten over the awe I felt for Sempe's Couperin. Maybe it's because it was one of the first I'd heard. Nothing ever matches it and I only wish Sempe would record more Bach some day. I really like Skip Sempe's solo keyboard recordings.

Mandryka

#101
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2019, 02:32:30 AM
Right. I was probably thinking of some silly caricature of Englishness. Is Mahan Esfahani good in this genre? I should check him out. And I need to listen more to Alessandrini too. I've never gotten over the awe I felt for Sempe's Couperin. Maybe it's because it was one of the first I'd heard. Nothing ever matches it and I only wish Sempe would record more Bach some day. I really like Skip Sempe's solo keyboard recordings.

You could plot performances of Louis Couperin's measured music on a 2D chart. The y axis showing how turbulent and flamboyant the music is made to sound - sudden unexpected changes in tempo and mood (as opposed to noble, gracious.) The x axis showing how melodic (as opposed to contrapuntal) the music sounds - whether one voice interrupts  another to make scrunchy chords and interrupt the flow.

Alessandrini is noble and contrapuntal; Egarr is flamboyant and contrapuntal; Verlet . . . is melodic and noble. I'm starting to appreciate Verlet much more than before.

Not sure about any of this!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

milk

Quote from: Mandryka on December 06, 2019, 02:45:16 AM
You could plot performances of Louis Couperin's measured music on a 2D chart. The y axis showing how turbulent and flamboyant the music is made to sound - sudden unexpected changes in tempo and mood (as opposed to noble, gracious.) The x axis showing how melodic (as opposed to contrapuntal) the music sounds - whether one voice interrupts  another to make scrunchy chords and interrupt the flow.

Alessandrini is noble and contrapuntal; Egarr is flamboyant and contrapuntal; Verlet . . . is melodic and noble. I'm starting to appreciate Verlet much more than before.

Not sure about any of this!
Verlet has a couple of recordings, right? There's one with a very mean-tone sound - kind of moody and dark...wait, no, I'm thinking of Froberger. Do you think she takes Froberger differently or is it in line with her conception of baroque music? Or did she change during her career? I seem to remember the Froberger as really spicy and off-kilter.

dissily Mordentroge

#103
Quote from: milk on December 06, 2019, 02:28:45 PM
Verlet has a couple of recordings, right? There's one with a very mean-tone sound - kind of moody and dark...wait, no, I'm thinking of Froberger. Do you think she takes Froberger differently or is it in line with her conception of baroque music? Or did she change during her career? I seem to remember the Froberger as really spicy and off-kilter.
I recall going into shock the first time I was exposed to Wanda Landovska's Couperin mangled on one of her blunderbuss Pleyel 'Grand Modèle de Concert' harpsichords. Encountering these peculiar recordings again today for the first time in decades they almost sound strangely manic and contemporary. Warning: The graphics in the link below however are just as likely to induce epilepsy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1hm64X9ANo

bioluminescentsquid

Quote from: dissily Mordentroge on December 06, 2019, 02:41:22 PM
I recall going into shock the first time I was exposed to Wanda Landovska's Couperin mangled on one of her blunderbuss Pleyel 'Grand Modèle de Concert' harpsichords. Encountering these peculiar recordings again today for the first time in decades they almost sound strangely manic and contemporary. Warning: The graphics in the link below however are just as likely to induce epilepsy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1hm64X9ANo

I don't think Landovska played Louis Couperin (the better couperin :) ). But here's a wonderfully strange version of L. Couperin's Fis minor Pavane on a Pleyel harpsichord, by a student of hers. https://youtu.be/du8yRywaqcE?t=3096

Mandryka

Quote from: milk on December 06, 2019, 02:28:45 PM
Verlet has a couple of recordings, right? There's one with a very mean-tone sound - kind of moody and dark...wait, no, I'm thinking of Froberger. Do you think she takes Froberger differently or is it in line with her conception of baroque music? Or did she change during her career? I seem to remember the Froberger as really spicy and off-kilter.

Three Froberger recordings, all made at different times, I'll try and make some sense of what she does some time soon. There are 5 volumes of Louis Couperin by her, a big survey project.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

milk

Quote from: Mandryka on December 06, 2019, 09:43:36 PM
Three Froberger recordings, all made at different times, I'll try and make some sense of what she does some time soon. There are 5 volumes of Louis Couperin by her, a big survey project.
The one that stood out as odd and interesting to me is "Froberger ou l'intranquillité" - which from the title promises something. I think it's a very interesting recording but I wonder if it's different than what she'd done previously. 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and day there's something maddening in this performance, even frightening.

Mandryka

#107


A new release, this month I think, and well worth a listen not least for a beautiful transcription à la Ste Colombe le père of a suite by Louis Couperin for thee viols, which makes him sound almost the equal of Ste. Colombe himself.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#108


The great interest here is the sense of impetuousness, it's something I can't remember hearing before from any other performer.

She makes the music comes across as melody and accompaniment. Not always - the C major Sarabande and the F major allemande are notable and impressive counterexamples - but often. Melody and accompaniment is her default - all the life is in the top voice. In the past, when I've been listening to more contrapuntal ways of playing it, I've found what Blandine Verlet does really disappointing. It seemed like dumbing down almost, or rather simplifying.  But that was some time ago, and now it seems easy to listen to.

And that impulsiveness is quite something to hear - really impressive. It's like a force of nature, anstonishing and irresistible in the C major passacaglia and F major gigue for example. It's like, she's completely abandoned her self to the muse, duende has possessed her,  so palpable is the impression of spontaneity. I can see why so many people adore her.


Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

The above, Volume 1, was recorded in 1986. Vol 2 was recorded in 1989.




What a difference 3 years makes. Gone that fierce and ardent impulsiveness which makes the earlier performances special. Now we are left with sweet lyricism. Very nice of course, and no doubt this is a real achievement - but it's not what I'm really looking for right now. This is the steady and composed Verlet I remembered and found disappointing.

There are five volumes altogether to her Louis Couperin - I wonder if she ever finds the inspiration of the first again.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka



Fun factoid: Rousset's Tombeau for Blancrocher is the slowest in the history if the universe, because he has the vision and courage to let it breathe, he manages the silences like a real poet. It's what Japanese aesthetics (or at least Toyahiko Satoh) calls iki - I absolutely love it!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka



According to this essay it's just not possible to tell whether many of the pieces were written by Louis, Charles or Francois Couperin! I remember once hearing Davitt Moroney say that there's more grounds for thinking that the organ music is by Louis than the harpsichord music - it was in a discussion of a paper by Glen Wilson where he asserts that the organ music is not Louis Couperin.

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/16/000142861.pdf

The CD that that booklet's taken from seems really rather nice - I'm listening to it for the first time now.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#112
 

Both of these open with a D minor suite, and so I thought I'd check both. The first thing you notice is that EMI recorded the Colmar Ruckers very well indeed, less so Aeolus's engineering of the anonymous French harpsichord. The way he plays the prelude for Aeolus is magnificent. At the level of interpretation I must say I am very impressed by the EMI -- one  obvious point of difference, worth comparing, is the Sarabande.  The EMI seems  successful, if you like Asperen's rather tense approach to the music.  The experience has left me wanting to hear a less nervous approach -- Noelle Spieth maybe.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

#113


Maybe it's just my overactive imagination, but I think there's a palpable sense of wonder in this survey from Davitt Moroney - as if he's just discovered the  music, and is creating it for the first time. There's also a feeling of thoughtfulness, prayerfulness almost, which may well be unique. There are things to cavil about - it's a bit four square rhythmically, I'm not sure the instrument is ideal or is ideally recorded. But it doesn't matter to me at all. I'm glad this recording exists.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: Mandryka on December 11, 2023, 12:06:43 PM

Maybe it's just my overactive imagination, but I think there's a palpable sense of wonder in this survey from Davitt Moroney - as if he's just discovered the  music, and is creating it for the first time. There's also a feeling of thoughtfulness, prayerfulness almost, which may well be unique. There are things to cavil about - it's a bit four square rhythmically, I'm not sure the instrument is ideal or is ideally recorded. But it doesn't matter to me at all. I'm glad this recording exists.

Back to this, and I feel the same.. La Piémontoise like no other -- it shouldn't work but it does. I hear thoughtful, prayerful and a sense of discovery and a feeling that the music is being created for the first time. Yes, it's a bit metronomic, more than a bit, but honestly, I don't care!


Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen