Dutch Composers

[beer]

May Sweelinck be considered a Dutch composer?

If he does, then he was the greatest, with no doubt. Just listen to his Fantasia Chromatica, or his Ricercar, for organ, played by Serge Schoonbroodt.

Yeah he Dutch and I agree the greatest. He is the Jimmy Hendrix of organ music with his psychedelic works and (must have) infuenced many composers to come.

Note that I dont know any other Dutch composers and Im Dutch

[Lethevich]

I ran into a series on Dutch music on Operashare recently, which I have been grabbing over the past few days. I haven't listened to much of it yet, but so far one obscurity has made an impression.

Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)

Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)

I like this one a lot. It is quite one-dimensional and without much going on under the surface, but the themes are engaging and some even memorable. The way they are written seems to rely on quite simplistic repetition or "stock" note progressions, which sound very "gratifying", but come across as a little cheap (I wish that I could explain the technical side of this more usefully). If this isn't a problem, then the symphony as a whole is very enjoyable, with lots of grand rumblings and surprisingly engaging themes - plus the movements tend to keep up their pace without many drops in momentum (which from a great composer is to enhance the music, but weaker composers seem to resort to them when they cannot continue a theme's development, or meld two sections together naturally).

A good example of the plusses and minuses of this symphony is in the scherzo, which has a neat theme - pondorous, yet grand - but the composer doesn't seem to be able to do much with it, so at 0:50 is almost literally repeated briefly, but on higher notes, then peters out. But the music isn't crippled by this, and immediately after this there is a nice swirling tune to bridge the gap between the first theme and the development. While very romantic in sound, the symphony has a few classical leanings, such as the 8:20 min+ mark in the fourth movement, which sounds deliberately quite classical, probably to create a sense of occasion. I can't compare it to any other composer, it's not really like simplified Brahms (not that he took a cue from Brahms, due to its earlier date of writing). Once or twice the tone in the first movement comes a little close to Elgar's "Nimrod" from the Enigma Variations, and the freeness of the melody also has slight resemblence to (although being NOTHING as good as) Tchaikovsky, but the similarities to both are only passing.

Overall on an objective basis, it's neglected for good reason. It's quite simplistic and has no "greatness" to it, but I personally find it enjoyable, and it vindicates searching through these "lost" composers trying to find works of interest. Here is the scherzo for anybody interested. If somebody likes it I can upload the rest for them.

[Harry]

I ran into a series on Dutch music on Operashare recently, which I have been grabbing over the past few days. I haven't listened to much of it yet, but so far one obscurity has made an impression.

Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)

Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)

I like this one a lot. It is quite one-dimensional and without much going on under the surface, but the themes are engaging and some even memorable. The way they are written seems to rely on quite simplistic repetition or "stock" note progressions, which sound very "gratifying", but come across as a little cheap (I wish that I could explain the technical side of this more usefully). If this isn't a problem, then the symphony as a whole is very enjoyable, with lots of grand rumblings and surprisingly engaging themes - plus the movements tend to keep up their pace without many drops in momentum (which from a great composer is to enhance the music, but weaker composers seem to resort to them when they cannot continue a theme's development, or meld two sections together naturally).

A good example of the plusses and minuses of this symphony is in the scherzo, which has a neat theme - pondorous, yet grand - but the composer doesn't seem to be able to do much with it, so at 0:50 is almost literally repeated briefly, but on higher notes, then peters out. But the music isn't crippled by this, and immediately after this there is a nice swirling tune to bridge the gap between the first theme and the development. While very romantic in sound, the symphony has a few classical leanings, such as the 8:20 min+ mark in the fourth movement, which sounds deliberately quite classical, probably to create a sense of occasion. I can't compare it to any other composer, it's not really like simplified Brahms (not that he took a cue from Brahms, due to its earlier date of writing). Once or twice the tone in the first movement comes a little close to Elgar's "Nimrod" from the Enigma Variations, and the freeness of the melody also has slight resemblence to (although being NOTHING as good as) Tchaikovsky, but the similarities to both are only passing.

Overall on an objective basis, it's neglected for good reason. It's quite simplistic and has no "greatness" to it, but I personally find it enjoyable, and it vindicates searching through these "lost" composers trying to find works of interest. Here is the scherzo for anybody interested. If somebody likes it I can upload the rest for them.

I find the Scherzo to be very fine, and would love it Sarah, if you would give me the rest.
Do you know by any chance the label on which it is recorded, or the orchestra that is performing it.
I never heard of the fellow....

[Lethevich]

I find the Scherzo to be very fine, and would love it Sarah, if you would give me the rest.
Do you know by any chance the label on which it is recorded, or the orchestra that is performing it.
I never heard of the fellow....

If you haven't heard of him then he must be obscure There seems to be an appreciation society for him here (all in Dutch, of course). I doubt there have been any commercial CDs of his music released - this symphony was taped from a radio broadcast. I'll begin uploading the other movements - should be done in 20 mins

The information that came with the file:

Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
conducted by Jac van Steen
Studio recording Dutch Radio 4, ca. 1997

[Harry]

If you haven't heard of him then he must be obscure There seems to be an appreciation society for him here (all in Dutch, of course). I doubt there have been any commercial CDs of his music released - this symphony was taped from a radio broadcast. I'll begin uploading the other movements - should be done in 20 mins

The information that came with the file:

Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
conducted by Jac van Steen
Studio recording Dutch Radio 4, ca. 1997

I owe you one Sarah, thanks....

[Harry]

If you haven't heard of him then he must be obscure There seems to be an appreciation society for him here (all in Dutch, of course). I doubt there have been any commercial CDs of his music released - this symphony was taped from a radio broadcast. I'll begin uploading the other movements - should be done in 20 mins

The information that came with the file:

Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
conducted by Jac van Steen
Studio recording Dutch Radio 4, ca. 1997

Well this site is only about a choir with his name but precious little about the works he composed.
Will look further into the matter.

[Harry]

There are recordings, from the first Symphony and chamber works, plus a vocal one.
See link, in Dutch.
I ordered the Sterling CD with the first Symphony.

http://www.stichtingdelange.nl/images/Content/Folder%20Stichting%20De%20Lange.pdf

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Daniël de Lange was the teacher of Matthijs Vermeulen, so - he does live on in a sense...

[Lethevich]

There are recordings, from the first Symphony and chamber works, plus a vocal one.
See link, in Dutch.
I ordered the Sterling CD with the first Symphony.

http://www.stichtingdelange.nl/images/Content/Folder%20Stichting%20De%20Lange.pdf

Ah, thanks. Nice to see that there's at least one CD available. I admit, I didn't look very hard - him not having any mention on the Dutch Wikipedia, let alone his own page, put me off

Daniël de Lange was the teacher of Matthijs Vermeulen, so - he does live on in a sense...

Coolie - it's nice to always find out new ways in which composers are associated to each other - this link does seem rather surprising, given Vermeulen's style

[Harry]

Ah, thanks. Nice to see that there's at least one CD available. I admit, I didn't look very hard - him not having any mention on the Dutch Wikipedia, let alone his own page, put me off

Coolie - it's nice to always find out new ways in which composers are associated to each other - this link does seem rather surprising, given Vermeulen's style

There is mention on the Dutch wikipedia site Sarah, and his own page no less.
And there are three cd's with music of this composer.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dani%C3%ABl_de_Lange

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Coolie - it's nice to always find out new ways in which composers are associated to each other - this link does seem rather surprising, given Vermeulen's style

Vermeulen was an individualist. And his contact with the composer Alphons Diepenbrock was more important. Also - he attended a lot of concerts at the Concertgebouw, where he heard all the latest music (Debussy, Mahler et al). He was voracious, but in the end everything came out as 'Vermeulen'...

[Lethevich]

I can't believe I didn't find that page! I should've probably directly searched WP instead of used Google...

Jezetha - Operashare also had Vermeulen's 2nd symphony, which is nice. I haven't listened to it closely yet, but it's near the top of my "to listen" pile.

Upload finished (restating the name and work in case anybody missed my first post).

Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)
I. Allegro molto moderato
II. Andante con moto
III. Scherzo (Molto vivace)
IV. Allegro molto vivace

[Harry]

And one of his brother Samuel...

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_de_Lange_jr.

[Harry]

I can't believe I didn't find that page! I should've probably directly searched WP instead of used Google...

Jezetha - Operashare also had Vermeulen's 2nd symphony, which is nice. I haven't listened to it closely yet, but it's near the top of my "to listen" pile.

Upload finished (restating the name and work in case anybody missed my first post).

Daniël de Lange (1841-1918)
Symphony in C minor, Op.4 (c.1865)
I. Allegro molto moderato
II. Andante con moto
III. Scherzo (Molto vivace)
IV. Allegro molto vivace

Capital, thank you, will listen to this one carefully.

[johnQpublic]

Does anyone here love the swashbuckling drama and ultra-rich orchestrations of Richard Strauss?

If so, try the Dutchman: Johann Wagenaar.

Personally I love my Chailly disc of his overtures and assorted other small orchestral pieces:

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Does anyone here love the swashbuckling drama and ultra-rich orchestrations of Richard Strauss?

If so, try the Dutchman: Johann Wagenaar.

Personally I love my Chailly disc of his overtures and assorted other small orchestral pieces:

Yes, I like Richard Strauss (Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Heldenleben...) and I like Johan Wagenaar's very colourful orchestral pieces... I have that disc.

[Lethevich]

Sorry about another big post (there may be further ones)... I have a large folder of mp3s from Operashare, and the stand-out ones are compelling me to write about them...

Cornelis Dopper (1870-1939)

Symphony No.1, "Diana" (1895, rev.1921)

Termed "dance symphony" by the composer, this work began as a ballet, and that is more or less what it still sounds like in symphony form. A better term may have been "suite", but that's not important. The work itself is light and springy, and excellent mood music. A few fanfares smattered around (a very Hollywood view of ancient Greece/Rome ), especially in the first movement where they form something resembling a main theme. First movement builds up organically with woodwind fluttering, horn calls, noble/mysterious violin theme building into a little tizzy - all the stock effects, really. It's pulled off well, and creates a fine noble/naturalistic sounding setting.

The craftsman aspect overall is very good, even though it's his first symphony. The transitions and themes aren't as clunky as the previous composer I reviewed, and the music is also more varied, with far more interesting things happening outside of the violin/brass section - much better orchestration. There are also appealing melodies present, although they aren't really developed as in a structured symphony - it's freeform atmospheric music, which is especially delightful in the second movement's dance, though there seem to be a few reoccurring themes throughout some of the movements such as the horn call (maybe a little like Berlioz's idée fixe). Overall the symphony feels very youthful and Romantic, and not entirely similar to his later works (having already heard the 7th symphony while writing this). That is as much an asset as a minus point - the music is a delight, and where there are slightly miscalculated (or banal) parts, you forgive the young composer.

Symphony No.7, "Zuiderzee" (1917)

This is apparently the piece performed before Matthijs Vermeulen caused the scene which put him out of favour with much of the establishment of the time. While it's conservative, it's not THAT derivative. From the start it's attractive, appealing, and has the mark of a composer confident in every aspect of their craft. The formal problems of the 1st aren't an issue in this work (I can't speak for the ones in between, which I haven't heard), and his flowing and lyrical style is not at all inhibited by having to better structure this symphony. Melodies in surging string themes, which are then intertwined by other lines from the orchestra - it's the stuff you expect from great composers, but sometimes miss in obscure ones. This isn't the case with Dopper - he's a good melodist and orchestator, his themes building and combining very successfully.

The second movement is delightful, titled Humoreske, it harks back to pre-Scherzo Menuettos - a bit of bouncy fun. The end of this lilting, march-style movement finishes quite bombastically, something which will occur again at the end of the fourth movement. I can see this putting people off, but with such a talented composer, I find that they fit in well, rather than banging and crashing through otherwise attractive passages of music. I'm not sure how familiar he was with Tchaikovsky, but the march-like louder moments sound a bit like the third movement of the Pathétique. I found the slow third movement to be slightly less distinguished (but will give it many more listens before I give up on it), but this is more than made up for by the finale, which is exceptional.

It begins confidently with a hushed, scuttering tune on the strings soon interrupted by some uneasy sounding swirls from the woodwinds and percussion, before combining with them into a gusting tune, then as quickly as that arrived, a full orchestra theme makes its appearance with brilliant brass accompanying it. To me, this perfectly demonstrates what is so fun, enjoyable, and just plain "great" about symphonic music. It sounds absolutely wonderful, and contains a wealth of ideas. The second half... hehe! This is what will make people either love it or want to vomit. The hilarious peal of brass at 4:48 acts as a brief foreshadow to a high octane finale. The finale is so OTT that is is hard to take it seriously - I just listen to it grinning like an idiot. It's so tuneful, wonderful and foot-stamping fun. I'll upload the movement to show what I mean more effectively than my rather inadequate words: IV. Finale No time to upload the rest today, but I will tomorrow.

I am going to buy CDs by this composer ASAP (I see Chandos has released a few symphony discs, how handy), these symphonies made a big impression on me - the amount of ideas expertly constructed (in the 7th, at least) makes this music advocate itself very well. It's remarkable that Soviet bombast can be considered infinitely more attractive than this old-school imperialist European bombast 0:)

[Harry]

I have the Dopper recordings on Chandos, and find the music to be quite wonderful. It was a long time since I heard them, so I will will locate it, and give it a spin!

[Harry]

Yes, I like Richard Strauss (Zarathustra, Don Juan, Till Eulenspiegel, Heldenleben...) and I like Johan Wagenaar's very colourful orchestral pieces... I have that disc.

Somehow I missed this one, will remedy that ASAP.

[Lethevich]

Cornelis Dopper (1870-1939)
Symphony No.7, "Zuiderzee" (1917)

I. Allegro animato
II. Humoreske
III. Andante rubato
IV. Finale

Dutch Radio Symphony Orchestra
Conductor: David Porcelijn
Recorded: December 1990, Vredenburg, Utrecht

Sorry about how long it took. This composer will appeal to many people who enjoy 20th century tonal music, including, perhaps Shostakovich fans.