Perhaps a sensitive topic? re weed, ganja, cannabis

[lisa needs braces]

American states that allow ballot measures are all increasingly choosing to legalize marijuana. In this election cycle California is poised to vote for a regulated cannabis market like Colorado's, making recreational cannabis official in that state and doing away with their 20 year old wink-wink arrangement. Legalization will also be voted on by the residents of Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Maine and Massachusetts, and a spattering of states will consider medical marijuana. Given California's rich economy and population size, its decision to legalize will have national and international repercussions about drug policy. After this election cycle, if most of the ballot measures are successful, legalization might start happening via state governments themselves, and several New England states have promised to do so (as well as New Jersey) if Massachusetts' ballot measure is successful.

But since this is a music forum, my real goal with this thread is to ask: Have any of you listened to music while under the influence of cannabis especially the sativa strain? The few times I've done this have been wondrous experiences -- I've found that sound is so much fuller and richer and my artistic sensitivity is increased three fold. Oddly though, I've found everything is more engaging when under the influence of the sativa variety via edible form -- I remember listening to a history podcast (Hardcore History, the series on WW1) and finding it to be the most engaging thing ever.

In conclusion: What do you guys think of cannabis intoxication as a means to enhance artistic sensitivity and perception?

[Ken B]

I have never used it. 

I strongly support legalization. Of most drugs actually, cocaine for instance. Never used that either.  I'd legalize pretty much everything except antibiotics, antivirals and antifungals ( because of resistant strains).  I think a lot of these drugs are dangerous and bad for you, but so are laws against them.

[Ghost Sonata]

Rather sensitive, yes.  I lost my high school best bud to drugs and the false promises of Huxley's Doors of Perception, a book he revered.  The number of classical musicians with addictions (less publicized than rock or jazz musicians, one might speculate why) would surprise.  Drugs (and drink) are a spur to creativity, initially, and can make up for a lack of self-esteem or courage.  But for many souls, most?, the devil will eventually have his due.  In the case of my friend, a very talented writer and violinist, he accomplished nothing other than being quoted in several encyclopedias of Psychedelia.  Of course would we have the Symphonie Fantastique without opium?  Or say, Leibowitz's: Marijuana: Variations non sérieuses?  Obviously not.  Still, I wonder if such things are worth the damage done.  Perhaps my age is showing, or grief at the loss of my friend, but I think not.

[lisa needs braces]

Rather sensitive, yes.  I lost my high school best bud to drugs and the false promises of Huxley's Doors of Perception, a book he revered.  The number of classical musicians with addictions (less publicized than rock or jazz musicians, one might speculate why) would surprise.  Drugs (and drink) are a spur to creativity, initially, and can make up for a lack of self-esteem or courage.  But for many souls, most?, the devil will eventually have his due.  In the case of my friend, a very talented writer and violinist, he accomplished nothing other than being quoted in several encyclopedias of Psychedelia.  Of course would we have the Symphonie Fantastique without opium?  Or say, Leibowitz's: Marijuana: Variations non sérieuses?  Obviously not.  Still, I wonder if such things are worth the damage done.  Perhaps my age is showing, but I think not.

Perhaps your friend wouldn't have been lost to drugs if the government didn't treat cannabis and heroin as equally harmful, thereby sending wrong and confusing signals about the relative safety of drugs when an individual discovers that habitual use of cannabis is practically harmless.

[Ghost Sonata]

Maybe, abe, but looking back I think he had an addictive personality and a regrettable tendency to pseudo-intellectualize his drug experiences. Mostly, it was nothing more than self-indulgence. Fwiw, I agree with the Kenster and you, legalization is preferable to the so-called war on drugs, one that can only be lost in any case. But drugs for many folks are a Pandora's Box it would be better not to open.

[lisa needs braces]

Maybe, abe, but looking back I think he had an addictive personality and a regrettable tendency to pseudo-intellectualize his drug experiences. Mostly, it was nothing more than self-indulgence. Fwiw, I agree with the Kenster and you, legalization is preferable to the so-called war on drugs, one that can only be lost in any case. But drugs for many folks are a Pandora's Box it would be better not to open.

"Self-indulgence" is a meaningless phrase. Are we not being self-indulgent by listening to music that does nothing more than tickle the pleasure centers of our brains?

[mc ukrneal]

...when an individual discovers that habitual use of cannabis is practically harmless.

Unfortunately this is not true. There is too much unknown about the long term effects as so little research has been done on the topic to date. Perhaps you will be able to say this in some years, but you will have to wait for that research to catch up, assuming of course this is what they discover. Personally, I doubt it. 

[Ghost Sonata]

The term "self-indulgence" is hardly meaningless, abe; if it were, you could not legitimately use it to describe my own listening habits, which I agree with you are fairly "self-indulgent." About others' here, I could not authoritatively say.  If you meant that as an apologia for drug use, it's a poor comparison. My classical music addiction, if you will, hurts no one and does me no physical or mental harm - indeed, is prob. healthy for me and has no negative impact on society at large.

In sum, my feelings about drugs are these: they are rather like guns. They are dangerous. Not every gun in a given hand is going to maim or kill, nor is every drug on a given tongue. But the capacity of either to inflict harm and grief is elevated; some drugs (and guns) more, some less. caveat emptor.

[Ken B]

The term "self-indulgence" is hardly meaningless, abe; if it were, you could not legitimately use it to describe my own listening habits, which I agree with you are fairly "self-indulgent." About others' here, I could not authoritatively say.  If you meant that as an apologia for drug use, it's a poor comparison. My classical music addiction, if you will, hurts no one and does me no physical or mental harm - indeed, is prob. healthy for me and has no negative impact on society at large.

In sum, my feelings about drugs are these: they are rather like guns. They are dangerous. Not every gun in a given hand is going to maim or kill, nor is every drug on a given tongue. But the capacity of either to inflict harm and grief is elevated; some drugs (and guns) more, some less. caveat emptor.

A liking for Dumbarton Oaks is in no sense self-indulgent. A liking for Turangalila is. And Neal has a point about long term dangers. The Stravinsky has been around long enough we can pronounce it safe, but the other? Best not risk it.

[Mirror Image]

I'm against it. Some could say as long as they're not hurting anyone, then what does it matter? My view: you can't take any chances like that. I can see someone being allowed to use marijuana if they're terminally ill. That's a completely different matter altogether. I just don't want to walk out and see accident upon accident happen. People are crazy enough with no kind of drug in their body!

[lisa needs braces]

I'm against it. Some could say as long as they're not hurting anyone, then what does it matter? My view: you can't take any chances like that. I can see someone being allowed to use marijuana if they're terminally ill. That's a completely different matter altogether. I just don't want to walk out and see accident upon accident happen. People are crazy enough with no kind of drug in their body!

Marijuana has effectively been legal in California for 20 years such that anyone who wanted it could say they had "headaches" or "back pain" and get a prescription for it -- the measure that passed in 1996 was so broad that it effectively legalized cannabis in that state for anyone willing to fork over less than $100 per year to get a medical marijuana card.

Did the sky fall? Did accidents after accidents occur on the numerous roadways of California? Same with regards to Colorado since 2013.

I'm aghast at the knee jerk puritan attitudes on display here.

Ghost Sonata -- my friend, you needlessly broadened the discussion to one about all drugs whereas I limited it to cannabis which currently near 60% of the U.S populace wants legalized. There is no such demand for or approval of other substances.

[lisa needs braces]

I give you GMGs most popular drug related thread:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,89.0.html

Let's look down on these folk. 

[lisa needs braces]

A liking for Dumbarton Oaks is in no sense self-indulgent. A liking for Turangalila is. And Neal has a point about long term dangers. The Stravinsky has been around long enough we can pronounce it safe, but the other? Best not risk it.

[Ken B]

Marijuana has effectively been legal in California for 20 years such that anyone who wanted it could say they had "headaches" or "back pain" and get a prescription for it -- the measure that passed in 1996 was so broad that it effectively legalized cannabis in that state for anyone willing to fork over less than $100 per year to get a medical marijuana card.

Did the sky fall? Did accidents after accidents occur on the numerous roadways of California? Same with regards to Colorado since 2013.

I'm aghast at the knee jerk puritan attitudes on display here.

Marijuana has been widely available pretty much everywhere in the country for decades.
Aghast at either the knee-jerk or the puritan at GMG? Are you new here? You might as well be aghast at all the Shostakovich postings.

[Mirror Image]

Marijuana has effectively been legal in California for 20 years such that anyone who wanted it could say they had "headaches" or "back pain" and get a prescription for it -- the measure that passed in 1996 was so broad that it effectively legalized cannabis in that state for anyone willing to fork over less than $100 per year to get a medical marijuana card.

Did the sky fall? Did accidents after accidents occur on the numerous roadways of California? Same with regards to Colorado since 2013.

I'm aghast at the knee jerk puritan attitudes on display here.

Ghost Sonata -- my friend, you needlessly broadened the discussion to one about all drugs whereas I limited it to cannabis which currently near 60% of the U.S populace wants legalized. There is no such demand for or approval of other substances.

I'm exaggerating a bit, yes, but I still stand by statement that it's not good for our society just like people who get drunk and kill innocent people in car accidents isn't good for society and there are countless more examples. I'm liberal on many issues, but this isn't one of them. No good comes out of doing drugs that are aimed at altering your state of mind. As I said, people are already batshit crazy without the drugs in their system, they don't need any extra incentive. I think someone can have a good time without cannabis or any kind of drug. Also, your comment about us who oppose cannabis usage is a typical response from someone who can't accept a differing opinion. God forbid, I disagree with you!

Let me also state that there are a lot of things I disagree with about our society, but what can I do about it? I have to accept it and move on. But there's a reason why cannabis isn't legal nationwide.

[zamyrabyrd]

...Drugs (and drink) are a spur to creativity, initially, and can make up for a lack of self-esteem or courage.  But for many souls, most?, the devil will eventually have his due.  In the case of my friend, a very talented writer and violinist, he accomplished nothing other than being quoted in several encyclopedias of Psychedelia.  Of course would we have the Symphonie Fantastique without opium? 

With all due respect, the Symphonie Fantastique was crafted together from previous works, a ballet on Faust and the proposed Francs-Juges opera. The march from latter became "Marche au supplice" to which was added the idée fixe and a different ending. It makes for interesting copy to say he was in an opium haze when composing it, like Beethoven supposedly taking dictation from the heavens. As for being under the influence, Berlioz actually planned to commit murder but a chain of circumstances stopped him from killing the woman who dumped him and her fiancé. He also had severe health problems from the middle of his life that could have been exacerbated by drugs he was ingesting. His physician father apparently suffered from a similar stomach ailment that he himself took opium for.

Marijuana is bad news, not for what it does immediately, apart from killing ambition, but its toxic residues accumulate in the liver. We have a friend who is suffering from a severe neurological ailment and I can't help but wonder if it is not in part from his liberal indulgence in it over years. I read that states that already legalized it, have higher incidence of traffic accidents while under the influence. We get into tricky territory whether the government has a right to prohibit what consenting adults decide to do. The problem is how their actions affect others like children. How about second hand smoke from pot, or being in the way of an out of control vehicle? OK, the sale of alcohol and tobacco are regulated to the extent the government gets a large chunk of revenue by taxing them. Drugs like marijuana are just as bad if not worse.

[Karl Henning]

"Self-indulgence" is a meaningless phrase. Are we not being self-indulgent by listening to music that does nothing more than tickle the pleasure centers of our brains?

I think that is an example of what they call a false equivalence.

[Karl Henning]

With all due respect, the Symphonie Fantastique was crafted together from previous works, a ballet on Faust and the proposed Francs-Juges opera. The march from latter became "Marche au supplice" to which was added the idée fixe and a different ending. It makes for interesting copy to say he was in an opium haze when composing it, like Beethoven supposedly taking dictation from the heavens.

I'd modify your analysis, and say that it incorporates some pre-existing elements, rather than simply crafting it from previous works.

And your point is entirely well taken:  it is a profound misunderstanding of literature, to mistake the program of the Symphonie fantastique for autobiography.

[zamyrabyrd]

I'd modify your analysis, and say that it incorporates some pre-existing elements, rather than simply crafting it from previous works. And your point is entirely well taken:  it is a profound misunderstanding of literature, to mistake the program of the Symphonie fantastique for autobiography.

OK, however he did, it was a felicitous combination in the end!

[Ghost Sonata]

Ghost Sonata -- my friend, you needlessly broadened the discussion to one about all drugs whereas I limited it to cannabis which currently near 60% of the U.S populace wants legalized. There is no such demand for or approval of other substances.

I added those at no extra charge - a better bargain than drug dealers offer.  To be sure, my friend didn't die of Mary Jane; I'm well aware for some it will be a sufficient high, for others, like him, it will become a 'gateway drug.'