Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[71 dB]

What is excellent in the news?

[Todd]

What is excellent in the news?

Everything.

[71 dB]

Everything.

I read the article fast and it painted an opinion of a total mess. Sure it's military industry friendly corporate way of rejecting Trump from the right, but the left agree about it being a total mess. Nothing excellent about it...

[Todd]

Sure it's military industry friendly corporate way of rejecting Trump from the right

Incomprehensible gibberish.

Trump's decision is excellent because Kurdish security is not the responsibility of the United States.  Let Assad and Putin ally with the Kurds and have their soldiers die.  Syria and a greater Kurdistan are not worth the life of one more American soldier.  US forces should be removed from the country entirely as soon as possible. 

[71 dB]

Incomprehensible gibberish.

Trump's decision is excellent because Kurdish security is not the responsibility of the United States.  Let Assad and Putin ally with the Kurds and have their soldiers die.  Syria and a greater Kurdistan are not worth the life of one more American soldier.  US forces should be removed from the country entirely as soon as possible.

Kurds didn't have responsibility of helping the US fighting ISIS, but they did. Well, maybe by now they have learned to trust nobody.

I totally agree with you that American soldiers shouldn't be dying in Syria (a country that hasn't attacked the US), but the US has been there for years and it has created a certain balance that is now shattered with this sudden move by Trump. He should have first made sure Turkey doesn't attack the Kurds in Northern Syrian and only then bring the troops back home.

While troops are coming home from Syria, Trump sends 1,800 troops to Saudi-Arabia to die for a country that treats women as second class citizens, but they buy so much weapons!! Excellent news? The US keeps yoyoing the troops in the region. Bring back home, sent overseas, bring back,...

[Todd]

Kurds didn't have responsibility of helping the US fighting ISIS, but they did.

They did not do so out of kindness; they did so because it was to their advantage.

I totally agree with you that American soldiers shouldn't be dying in Syria (a country that hasn't attacked the US), but the US has been there for years and it has created a certain balance that is now shattered with this sudden move by Trump.

The US has acted in violation of the Constitution, the War Powers Resolution, and has been acting without an AUMF the entire time it has been in Syria.  Even if that was not the case, Trump and the US are under no obligation to do anything to maintain some perceived balance, which is fictitious anyway.  Europeans can step up if they are as concerned about regional stability as they claim.

[drogulus]

     
     Pentagon chief vows to cooperate with impeachment probe

Washington (AFP) - US Defense Secretary Mark Esper said Sunday the Pentagon would cooperate with the congressional impeachment inquiry -- in an apparent break with President Donald Trump's policy to thwart the probe.

Esper said his department would try to comply with a subpoena from House Democrats seeking records relating to the withholding of US military aid to Ukraine.

"We will do everything we can to cooperate with the Congress," Esper said on CBS's "Face The Nation."

     

Trump and the US are under no obligation to do anything to maintain some perceived balance, which is fictitious anyway.

     No one takes away an obligation the U.S. takes on. They could, Congress could, and they won't. Even the most adamant opponents of a particular responsibility want different ones. Economic power requires taking on responsibilities even if an America First ideology is used. Self interest will always consider the interests of fellow cooperators because it makes sense to cooperate for your own interests. Smart selfishness beats dumb selfishness all day long.

     If cranksters had a better idea they wouldn't keep it a secret.

     

[71 dB]

They did not do so out of kindness; they did so because it was to their advantage.

Likewise, the US troops hardly are oversees out of kindness. Kindness is not needed in deals. If two parties benefit from a deal it is done. The Kurds did their part of the deal, the US also did --- until now. We also have the Iran nuclear deal in which Iran followed the rules to the letter and Trump still refrained from it to topple the leaders of Iran for John Bolton. Trump has decimated the reputation of the US as a country keeping the deals it makes. The whole World knows now that it's useless to make deals with the US. A future moronic president can always tear it apart. The US is in decline as an Empire and China is becoming the next Empire doing the 21st century modern Empire thing: Financing infrastructure all over the World and then controlling the countries based on economic ties, debt. I don't want China to rise on top, but that's what happening.

The US has acted in violation of the Constitution, the War Powers Resolution, and has been acting without an AUMF the entire time it has been in Syria.  Even if that was not the case, Trump and the US are under no obligation to do anything to maintain some perceived balance, which is fictitious anyway.  Europeans can step up if they are as concerned about regional stability as they claim.

With power comes responsibility. The US likes the power part. Had the US (and other superpowers such as Russia) stayed away from the middle east altogether we would probably have a much more peaceful, secular and western countries in the region, but the US always wants it's puppet where there is oil or other natural resources so that democratic progress is always stopped for more dictatorial US-friendly leaders who are more willing to serve Exxon Mobil than own people. We will see how Europe will react to this mess. Adults have to learn up the mess of children, again 

[Florestan]

With power comes responsibility. The US likes the power part. Had the US (and other superpowers such as Russia) stayed away from the middle east altogether we would probably have a much more peaceful, secular and western countries in the region, but the US always wants it's puppet where there is oil or other natural resources so that democratic progress is always stopped for more dictatorial US-friendly leaders who are more willing to serve Exxon Mobil than own people.

Quick test: which middle eastern country was among the most secular and westernized in the 1970s, when US involvement there was heavy?

Hint: the same country which, after the US influence was completely removed,  turned into a vehemently anti-Western theocracy.

We will see how Europe will react to this mess.

That's actually fairly easy to predict: hypocritical hand-wringing accompanied by exactly zero concrete action.

[drogulus]

     The TrumPutin plan is to have Putin and Erdogan assume responsibility for resettlement efforts and any ethnic cleansing or hospital bombing that must be done.

They did not do so out of kindness; they did so because it was to their advantage.

    So do we do what is to our advantage. But something like kindness may result from cooperation, like how the Kurds helped us clear ISIS from Arab areas, because we asked them to do it. It wasn't their responsibility, they could say no. They helped us, we he helped them. There will be no new theory of cooperation, it's an advanced form of selfishness that beats rivals.

[BasilValentine]

Trump's decision is excellent because Kurdish security is not the responsibility of the United States.  Let Assad and Putin ally with the Kurds and have their soldiers die.  Syria and a greater Kurdistan are not worth the life of one more American soldier.  US forces should be removed from the country entirely as soon as possible.

Just the sort of uninformed analysis we've come to expect. Kurdish security in a limited sense became the responsibility of the US when we offered our protection in return for the Kurds' agreement to dismantle their defensive positions on the Turkey border and to take responsibility for 10,000 ISIS prisoners. Ultimately we are in Syria cleaning up a small part of the chaos we set in motion when we disbanded the Iraqi military soon after the beginning of the occupation. Even if one accepts that we should renege on our commitments to the Kurds and get out of Syria, there are better and worse ways of doing this. The way Trump picked was the most moronic way it could possible have been done, that is, precipitously, without a plan for the future detention of ISIS prisoners and, knowing Trump, almost surely in exchange for some kind of material compensation from Turkey. 

[71 dB]

Quick test: which middle eastern country was among the most secular and westernized in the 1970s, when US involvement there was heavy?

Hint: the same country which, after the US influence was completely removed,  turned into a vehemently anti-Western theocracy.

That's actually fairly easy to predict: hypocritical hand-wringing accompanied by exactly zero concrete action.

I am not an expert of middle east. My father drove through the area (Syria Iran Iraq etc.) mid 60's and it was safe, friendly and peaceful experience. No sign of radical Islam.

Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh wanted to nationalize Iranian oil industry. He was regarded secular. US and UK removed him (home arrest). Good progress stopped. This lead later to Islamic revolution in 1979.

[drogulus]

     The Immigrants Trump Denounces Have Helped Revive the Cities He Scorns

In Chicago and Milwaukee, new Hispanic residents blunted population losses. In Boston and Oakland, their arrival helped reverse population declines. In booming cities like Los Angeles and Houston, Hispanic population growth has explained the entirety of the boom.

Between 2000 and 2010 in 76 of the country's 100 largest metro areas, Hispanics contributed more than any other racial or ethnic group to city population gains, or reduced population losses, according to "Diversity Explosion" by William Frey, a demographer. This Hispanic growth in cities has mattered all the more as African-Americans have increasingly moved to the suburbs, too.

     I don't think Trump hates immigrants because they are good for America. It's more like they are germs for him. That's how he sees them at the most basic level. You don't even get to the question of what germs are for.

[drogulus]

     A British family on vacation accidentally drove into the U.S. They've spent days detained with their 3-month-old baby.

     The U.K. doesn't send their best. How dumb is it to get lost near the U.S. border?

[Karl Henning]

     A British family on vacation accidentally drove into the U.S. They've spent days detained with their 3-month-old baby.

     The U.K. doesn't send their best. How dumb is it to get lost near the U.S. border?

Bad hombres!

[drogulus]

Bad hombres!

     I see a baby, I think cage.

     This is America, bitch!

[drogulus]

     Former Rep. Pete Sessions subpoenaed by grand jury investigating Giuliani and associates

A federal grand jury in New York has issued a subpoena to former Texas congressman Pete Sessions seeking records and other information on his interactions with President Trump's personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, and two Giuliani associates charged last week with a scheme to funnel foreign money to U.S. politicians, according to two people familiar with the investigation.

The subpoena seeks records about Sessions's dealings with Giuliani and two business associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, who had been helping Giuliani investigate Democratic presidential candidate and former vice president Joe Biden.

     Part of the scheme which involved Sessions was trying to get the Ukraine Ambassador removed.

[SimonNZ]

Ohio Was Set to Purge 235,000 Voters. It Was Wrong About 20%.
When Ohio released a list of people it planned to strike from its voting rolls, around 40,000 people shouldn't have been on it. The state only found out because of volunteer sleuthing.


KENTUCKY DEMOCRATS WIN AS COURT RULES 175,000 NAMES PURGED AS 'INACTIVE' MUST BE PUT BACK ON VOTER REGISTRY

[BasilValentine]

     I see a baby, I think cage.

     This is America, bitch!

Favorite debate quip from Julián Castro: "He's putting babies in cages on the southern border and freeing terrorists in Syria."

[SimonNZ]

Twitter lays out rules for world leaders amid pressure to rein in Trump

[...]"The June 2019 policy allowed for a scenario in which a world leader's tweet was bad enough to come down but merited remaining up for documentation or accountability. In these scenarios, Twitter said today, the company will apply a label to the offending tweet and users will not be allowed to like, retweet or share it."