Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[BasilValentine]

Yeah, but "can't imagine a scenario"? That's saying right out loud not simply "we think he's innocent of the charges" but "we don't care if he's proven guilty of all these accumulating charges, but also of anything else he's done or will do no matter the size or scope".

What it's saying is more specific than that. The republicans know that if Trump gets off for this, he will immediately put U.S. foreign policy decisions on the auction block in exchange for election assistance from any and every nation on earth. This is obvious to anyone who is not a fool. Personal gain is and has always been the primary motivation for his foreign policy decisions, with racism and resentment of Obama distantly trailing. His Israel policy, for example, is entirely a bid for the evangelical vote, because the hardcore Jesus freaks believe Israeli control of the "Holy Land" is a necessary precursor to Armageddon and the Rapture. Other decisions, like his support of Saudi Arabia, are based on naked greed. His favoring of Russia in nearly every decision is probably equal parts greed and fear.

[LKB]

What it's saying is more specific than that. The republicans know that if Trump gets off for this, he will immediately put U.S. foreign policy decisions on the auction block in exchange for election assistance from any and every nation on earth. This is obvious to anyone who is not a fool. Personal gain is and has always been the primary motivation for his foreign policy decisions, with racism and resentment of Obama distantly trailing. His Israel policy, for example, is entirely a bid for the evangelical vote, because the hardcore Jesus freaks believe Israeli control of the "Holy Land" is a necessary precursor to Armageddon and the Rapture. Other decisions, like his support of Saudi Arabia, are based on naked greed. His favoring of Russia in nearly every decision is probably equal parts greed and fear.

I agree with most of this, but not the final sentence. Virtually every utterance of Trump has displayed a below-average intellect, and I doubt he's smart enough to fear Putin.

LKB

[Karl Henning]

I agree with most of this, but not the final sentence. Virtually every utterance of Trump has displayed a below-average intellect, and I doubt he's smart enough to fear Putin.

LKB

Not afraid of, but financially beholden to Putin.

[drogulus]

     

I agree with most of this, but not the final sentence. Virtually every utterance of Trump has displayed a below-average intellect, and I doubt he's smart enough to fear Putin.

LKB

     I disagree. If Trump had been smart he wouldn't have put himself in a position where he had to fear Putin. No matter how much he needs to decouple from TrumPutin, he fears the consequences of trying to escape even more. He's trapped.

[Ratliff]

I agree with most of this, but not the final sentence. Virtually every utterance of Trump has displayed a below-average intellect, and I doubt he's smart enough to fear Putin.

LKB

There is the famous Steel Dossier. The information that Steel got from his Russian sources is probably typical kompromat, part truth, part half-truth, part fabrication. Only Trump knows for sure what parts are true.

[BasilValentine]

There is the famous Steel Dossier. The information that Steel got from his Russian sources is probably typical kompromat, part truth, part half-truth, part fabrication. Only Trump knows for sure what parts are true.

No, it has nothing to do with the dossier. It has to do with the fact that throughout his campaign and presidency, Putin has always known things about Trump's financial and political dealings damaging to Trump both politically and legally — things of which the western press and the U.S. public were unaware. When Trump was claiming for two years that he had no business dealings in Russia, Putin had documentary proof that this was a lie. When Trump was denying the significance and content of the Trump Tower meeting, Putin knew its content. Putin knew in real time about the channel by which  granular polling data from the RNC was being provided to Russian military intelligence. Putin also has data about money laundering Trump has performed for Russian mobsters and oligarchs over a couple of decades. He knows the content of Jared Kushner's initially undisclosed meetings with sanctioned Russian banks. All of this data Putin held and holds over Trump's head and could have released at any time. And if you think the multiple private conversations Trump has had with Putin, and for which Trump destroyed the translators' notes, weren't recorded by Russian intelligence operatives, you are naive. Putin has evidence that could sink Trump within a week if he released it. He might even have the pee-pee tapes.

[dissily Mordentroge]

I agree with most of this, but not the final sentence. Virtually every utterance of Trump has displayed a below-average intellect, and I doubt he's smart enough to fear Putin.
LKB

How smart do you need to be to realise your political career would be over if Putin published all the evidence he has for Trump's little adventure in Russia with ladies of the night?   Not even brain dead evangelical Christians would continue to turn a blind eye to all his other sins.

[Karl Henning]

How smart do you need to be to realise your political career would be over if Putin published all the evidence he has for Trump's little adventure in Russia with ladies of the night?   Not even brain dead evangelical Christians would continue to turn a blind eye to all his other sins.

Oh, the willful blindness of the brain-dead evangelicals will surprise you. Lawd knows, Trump counts on that willful blindness. "The evangelicals like me!"

[JBS]

What it's saying is more specific than that. The republicans know that if Trump gets off for this, he will immediately put U.S. foreign policy decisions on the auction block in exchange for election assistance from any and every nation on earth. This is obvious to anyone who is not a fool. Personal gain is and has always been the primary motivation for his foreign policy decisions, with racism and resentment of Obama distantly trailing. His Israel policy, for example, is entirely a bid for the evangelical vote, because the hardcore Jesus freaks believe Israeli control of the "Holy Land" is a necessary precursor to Armageddon and the Rapture. Other decisions, like his support of Saudi Arabia, are based on naked greed. His favoring of Russia in nearly every decision is probably equal parts greed and fear.

His Israel policy has several motivations
1) His desire to undo everything Obama did, chiefly Obama's Iranian policy
2) the rise of anti Israel sentiment among Democrats, itself in part a reaction to Trump's support of Netanyahu
3) the need to retain Orthodox Jews on his side, who are trending antiDemocrat as a response to reason 2

Most of these reinforce each other, and stem in large part from Netanyahu's decision to openly ally himself with the GOP against Obama.
But you will notice that Trump has in effect farmed out his Israel policy to Jewish supporters of Likud and Netanyahu.

[dissily Mordentroge]

Oh, the willful blindness of the brain-dead evangelicals will surprise you. Lawd knows, Trump counts on that willful blindness. "The evangelicals like me!"

Being and informal student of the last several centuries of biblical studies, yet not a believer, I can assure you nothing could surprise me concerning the wilful blindness of brain-dead evangelicals having been aware their misinterpretation of scripture continues in spite of vast amounts of evidence.
2nd Thessalonians Ch2.V11 comes to mind.

[Karl Henning]

Being and informal student of the last several centuries of biblical studies, yet not a believer, I can assure you nothing could surprise me concerning the wilful blindness of brain-dead evangelicals having been aware their misinterpretation of scripture continues in spite of vast amounts of evidence.
2nd Thessalonians Ch2.V11 comes to mind.

Check.

[dissily Mordentroge]

His Israel policy has several motivations
1) His desire to undo everything Obama did, chiefly Obama's Iranian policy
2) the rise of anti Israel sentiment among Democrats, itself in part a reaction to Trump's support of Netanyahu
3) the need to retain Orthodox Jews on his side, who are trending antiDemocrat as a response to reason 2

Most of these reinforce each other, and stem in large part from Netanyahu's decision to openly ally himself with the GOP against Obama.
But you will notice that Trump has in effect farmed out his Israel policy to Jewish supporters of Likud and Netanyahu.

Spoke about this recently with Jewish friends in New York who assured me most of their tribe abhor Trump. By tribe they meant members of their schul. (Spellcheck keeps trying to change schul to school)

[JBS]

Spoke about this recently with Jewish friends in New York who assured me most of their tribe abhor Trump. By tribe they meant members of their schul. (Spellcheck keeps trying to change schul to school)

[I spell it shul...but it's just a dialect variant of the German Schule, so Spellcheck isn't offbase.]

Reform and Conservative Jews (not to mention completely secular Jews) remain overwhelmingly Democratic. It's Orthodox Jews who are signing up for the GOP. Their reasoning seems to be simply what they think is good or bad for Israel, and almost toe the Netanyahu line, and hold their noses on the rest, even the Nazi supporters.

[dissily Mordentroge]

[I spell it shul...but it's just a dialect variant of the German Schule, so Spellcheck isn't offbase.]

Reform and Conservative Jews (not to mention completely secular Jews) remain overwhelmingly Democratic. It's Orthodox Jews who are signing up for the GOP. Their reasoning seems to be simply what they think is good or bad for Israel, and almost toe the Netanyahu line, and hold their noses on the rest, even the Nazi supporters.

Just off the phone to a friend in Safed (Nth Israel). She cannot understand the orthodox supporting Trump considering a high percentage of those in her town aren't even in favour of the existence of Israel. I've always found Isreali politics mind boggling. In fact I find everything about orthodox Judaism mind boggling.

[BasilValentine]

I agree with most of this, but not the final sentence. Virtually every utterance of Trump has displayed a below-average intellect, and I doubt he's smart enough to fear Putin.

LKB

Maybe that's why it took Putin four private meetings to explain it to his mentally challenged fanboy.

[JBS]

Just off the phone to a friend in Safed (Nth Israel). She cannot understand the orthodox supporting Trump considering a high percentage of those in her town aren't even in favour of the existence of Israel. I've always found Isreali politics mind boggling. In fact I find everything about orthodox Judaism mind boggling.

Safed is a wierd place. Because of its history (specifically, the place where the great rabbis Isaac Luria and Joseph Caro lived) it attracts a lot of ultra ultra Orthodox.

Trump supporters here are more or less the Religious Zionist and settler movements in Israel. Beyond that, Israeli politics tends to boggle the minds of Israelis, never mind the rest of us.  The most salient fact is that under the impact of the intifada, Hamas control of Gaza, and the demographic growth of the Orthodox community in contrast to the more secular Israelis,  the Right and nationalism are much more influential than they were 15 or 20 years ago.

[dissily Mordentroge]

Maybe that's why it took Putin four private meetings to explain it to his mentally challenged fanboy.

The truth may out if Trump loses the election soon after 'taking possession of' land in both Moscow and St Petersburg and begins construction of several more of his vulgar hotels. I'm torn between describing him as machiavellian, sly, shrewd, egomaniacal or just plain evil. Maybe all five?

[SimonNZ]

Machiavelli would resent the comparison.

[JBS]

Machiavelli would resent the comparison.

Actually the term "machiavellian" has nothing to do with what the man himself thought.  For his real views on what good government is,  the Discourses on the First Decade of Titus Livius is the best source:

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10827

But the common meaning of the term would describe what Trump probably thinks he is (as opposed to the reality of what he is).

[drogulus]

     Ken Starr: GOP Senators Might Consider Having to 'Make a Trip' to the White House After Sondland's Testimony

     That's an optimistic take.

     Sondland says that there was only one policy track and everyone at the top knew about it and acted to implement it. That includes Bolton, Mulvaney and Pompeo.

     The coming attempt to blame the scheme on Rudy won't fly, because the top people knew Rudy was acting at the direction of Trump, just as Pompeo, Bolton and Mulvaney were themselves. Sondland is taking everyone "in the loop" down with him.