Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[Herman]

Concerns about Nov 3d.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/us/politics/trump-2020-election-voting-rights.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

"changing the date of the election is not what worries Mr. Elias. The bigger threat in his mind is the possibility that the Trump administration could act in October to make it harder for people to vote in urban centers in battleground states — possibilities, he said, that include declaring a state of emergency, deploying the National Guard or forbidding gatherings of more than 10 people."

So all Trump c.s. needs, in a Weimar scenario, is his goons to fire some guns or blow something up in Madison, WI and Detroit, MI, and he can close those states down and win.

[Karl Henning]

Says it all:

"On weekend dedicated to war dead, Trump tweets insults, promotes baseless claims and plays golf"

[JBS]

I am sure such ideas have crossed his mind and those of some of his minions.

But in the real world, they couldn't be done without the cooperation of state and local politicians, many of whom (like the governors of the two states mentioned) are Democrats.

[drogulus]

Well, if loses in November he'll have to pardon himself because the Dems want to put him in prison. You can understand his worries. 

United States of a Banana Republic here we are. 

     I don't think Dems would try to engineer a phony case to imprison Trump. Should he be tried and convicted it won't be a Dem operation.

     Trump would be safe in a republic of actual bananas. In a republic of laws he might not be.

[Herman]

The Ds would not put a process in motion to try Trump and put him in jail. Typically they are about getting the business of running the country back together, after a Republican president wrecked the economy, got the US in an hopeless war or created abysmal deficits.

Remember the only US president who came up with ideas to "lock up" a campaign opponent (HRC) and a previous incumbent is Trump.

Obviously there are one or two D outliers who dream of seeing Trump in court, but this will never happen.

[Todd]

United States of a Banana Republic here we are.

That point was reached in 2016.  A billionaire populist vs the wife of a former president.  Vaguely Argentinian.  Now we have two septuagenarians displaying varying levels of dementia having at it.  ¡Estados Unidos!

There will be some in the Democrat party who will push very aggressively to pursue Trump in court, both criminally and civilly.  This can be useful to Republicans, demonstrating the blind partisanship and petty vindictiveness of Dems.  It will be politically useful in 2022 and 2024.  Post-November Trump is expendable.  Hopefully, Biden doesn't pull a Ford in his dotage.

[Todd]

I can't see any angling for Trump that matter though. Once an election is lost, most sins are fiorgiven, and I doubt Trump will rise again. Like Pelosi is a political actor, as soon as Trump no longer plays, she'll stop caring, as she has more in common with him than her base.

Senior leaders like Pelosi will just move on.  True believers and politicians still trying to make their names are going to be the ones more prone to not letting go.  I encourage that.

Over-Under for Biden/Trump claiming the ability to physically manhandle the other.

They should start with the push-up contest.

[Todd]

This might be the most excited I've been for any presidential debate.

Oh, I know.  Imagine if it is done via Zoom.

[Herman]

However, is there any obligation to do a debate?

Neither Trump nor Biden has much to win by debating the other one.

Plus, neither one is in great shape, as an orator / debater.

[drogulus]

They already did. See the Mueller report and the Ukraine impeachment. Neither were based on solid evidence of a crime, a la Watergate. 

     Neither of these are phony cases engineered to imprison Trump. If there is ever a case to imprison Trump, it won't be phony, even if an Angry Democrat or two is on the prosecution team. Such people convict pols and mobsters of all stripes, as the world knows.

     I don't care what Dems try to push when Trump is gone. It won't matter to cases against Trump either way, if any are brought.

[JBS]

That point was reached in 2016.  A billionaire populist vs the wife of a former president.  Vaguely Argentinian.  Now we have two septuagenarians displaying varying levels of dementia having at it.  ¡Estados Unidos!

There will be some in the Democrat party who will push very aggressively to pursue Trump in court, both criminally and civilly.  This can be useful to Republicans, demonstrating the blind partisanship and petty vindictiveness of Dems.  It will be politically useful in 2022 and 2024.  Post-November Trump is expendable.  Hopefully, Biden doesn't pull a Ford in his dotage.

Actually the most fruitful grounds for a criminal prosecution of Trump, financial shenanagins and frauds committed prior to his election, would likely be barred by the statute of limitations by the time 20 Jan 2021 gets here. Although I'm sure there must be one Democratic AG lusting to get the limelight by trying to prosecute.

Lol, so true. Great observation.
Yeah, but I've read that Ford lost primarily because of the pardon of Nixon. If Trump gets pardoned by Biden that would piss off a lot of the voters and seriously undermine the election of the Dem candidates. I think that was one critical reason they impeached Trump over Ukraine, the base of the party overwhelmingly approved of it. While the power elites may not care once Trump is out, they have to consider the voters, many of whom are younger, far more progressive and who already feel that the government is unresponsive to them. 

Ford pardoned Nixon in the shadow of the latter resigning in disgrace,  which allowed Ford to say he had already been punished enough.
Trump losing an election would not be a parallel situation.

[Todd]

...[T]he egos on these two is massive, and it will only take a single slight, I feel, to set either one off. It is going to be awesome.

This.

Lol, so true. Great observation.
Yeah, but I've read that Ford lost primarily because of the pardon of Nixon. If Trump gets pardoned by Biden that would piss off a lot of the voters and seriously undermine the election of the Dem candidates. I think that was one critical reason they impeached Trump over Ukraine, the base of the party overwhelmingly approved of it. While the power elites may not care once Trump is out, they have to consider the voters, many of whom are younger, far more progressive and who already feel that the government is unresponsive to them.

I have doubts that Biden can make it 1461 days.

[Karl Henning]

     Neither of these are phony cases engineered to imprison Trump.

Nope. But, you're engaged in an exchange with a Trumpkin to whom the facts of the case are inconvenient, and therefore to be denied vehemently.

[drogulus]

Actually the most fruitful grounds for a criminal prosecution of Trump, financial shenanagins and frauds committed prior to his election, would likely be barred by the statute of limitations by the time 20 Jan 2021 gets here. Although I'm sure there must be one Democratic AG lusting to get the limelight by trying to prosecute.

     I don't see limelight lust as having any power over the statute of limitations. What is possible is that after Trump leaves he could be prosecuted for obstruction of justice with the Mueller Report instances the roadmap. There's no statute of limitations problem there, so we might get plenty of disinfecting limelight. I don't think Dems ought to lobby for this result, though prayer (without pressure) would be acceptable.

     

    Now now, none of that!

[BasilValentine]

They already did. See the Mueller report and the Ukraine impeachment. Neither were based on solid evidence of a crime, a la Watergate.

I think at this point in the future any president will be at risk of impeachment, if the standard is to just find anything remotely suspect. The Dems lowered the standard, per usual.

So you don't believe Mueller's detailing of multiple instances of obstruction of justice in Part 2 of the report was based on strong evidence? Which of these counts do you dispute? On what basis? Are you disputing that Trump violated the Impoundment Control Act in holding up aid to Ukraine? And that he attempted to coerce a favor from the Ukrainian government by so doing?

[Karl Henning]

"The truth is that Trump is not much more despicable of a human being than he has always been; it's just that standard Trumpian behavior becomes more horrifying when it occurs during an ongoing national crisis. It is reality that changed around him, and he was incapable of responding to it."

Can we stop pretending Trump is fit to be president?

[SimonNZ]

GOP lawmaker calls on Trump to stop promoting Scarborough conspiracy theory: 'It will destroy us'

"Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) called on President Trump to stop promoting the "completely unfounded conspiracy" theory regarding the death of an intern for MSNBC "Morning Joe" anchor Joe Scarborough, a former Republican congressman from Florida.

The president on Sunday morning urged his followers in a tweet to read an article from conservative website True Pundit, which claimed that evidence showed foul play in the death of Lori Klausutis, 28, in 2001.

"Just stop," Kinzinger responded said. "Stop spreading it, stop creating paranoia. It will destroy us."

On Saturday, the president also tweeted out a story about his calls for further investigations into Klausutis's death, which a local medical examiner ruled accidental.

Klausutis was found dead in Scarborough's district office in 2001. A medical examiner determined she had collapsed because of an undiagnosed heart condition and struck her head in the fall.

Trump has previously promoted the conspiracy theory that Scarborough was involved in the death, including earlier this month when he requested Comcast, which owns NBC Universal, to investigate the case.

The MSNBC host, who frequently critiques the president, responded to that tweet on his show, saying Trump was dragging Klausutis's family through the mud. [...]


Trump sees a 'rigged election' ahead. Democrats see a constitutional crisis in the making.

"First he lit into Michigan and Nevada, threatening to withhold federal funding because of his assertion that both states were preparing to commit voter fraud through mail-in ballot applications. Then President Donald Trump followed up Sunday with two more broadly-worded warnings that November would be "the greatest Rigged Election in history."

"The Democrats are trying to Rig the 2020 Election, plain and simple!" the president claimed.

Trump's increasingly amped-up rhetoric surrounding the integrity of the November election is beginning to bring to center stage a previously muted conversation. With the president lagging behind Joe Biden in public opinion polls six months before the general election, his opponents are becoming increasingly anxious that Trump may attempt to undermine the results of the election if he loses — or worse, might attempt to cling to power regardless of the outcome.

"He is planting the seeds for delegitimizing the election if he loses," Vanita Gupta, a former head of DOJ's civil rights division under President Barack Obama and now president of The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, said on Twitter on Sunday in reaction to Trump's "rigged election" claim. "It's from the playbook. It'll get more intense as he gets more freaked out."[...]


Trump threatens to pull Republican convention out of North Carolina
He demands a guarantee the convention will be allowed to go on as planned.

"President Donald Trump on Monday morning threatened to move August's Republican National Convention out of North Carolina unless there are guarantees the state will let everyone attend.

"I love the Great State of North Carolina, so much so that I insisted on having the Republican National Convention in Charlotte at the end of August. Unfortunately, Democrat Governor, @RoyCooperNC is still in Shutdown mood & unable to guarantee that by August we will be allowed ... ..full attendance in the Arena," he began in a string of four tweets.

Trump added: "In other words, we would be spending millions of dollars building the Arena to a very high standard without even knowing if the Democrat Governor would allow the Republican Party to fully occupy the space."

In case voters in the swing state might take offense, Trump twice indicated his "love" for the state and its people. Recent polls have shown Trump and presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden in a tight battle for North Carolina's 15 electoral votes.

The RNC is scheduled to be held in Charlotte on Aug. 24-27, less than a week after Democrats are set to wrap up their rescheduled convention in Milwaukee.

In a statement, Cooper said North Carolina was cooperating with the Republican National Committee: "State health officials are working with the RNC and will review its plans as they make decisions about how to hold the convention in Charlotte. North Carolina is relying on data and science to protect our state's public health and safety."[...]

[JBS]

"The truth is that Trump is not much more despicable of a human being than he has always been; it's just that standard Trumpian behavior becomes more horrifying when it occurs during an ongoing national crisis. It is reality that changed around him, and he was incapable of responding to it."

Can we stop pretending Trump is fit to be president?

From the article

That is the choice they're making. We all know it, even if they'll never say it out loud.

In fact, if one looks through the Internet, a bunch of them do say that out loud.

[Karl Henning]

From the article
In fact, if one looks through the Internet, a bunch of them do say that out loud.

How loud?

[JBS]

How loud?

Quite clearly. Trump is the price they are paying to make sure they have conservative judges and right wing policies. 

Look at Dowder. He comes across as very anti-Democratic, but he's not exactly thrilled by some of Trump's actions.