Sound The TRUMPets! A Thread for Presidential Pondering 2016-2020(?)

[SimonNZ]

But they must realise the political climate they're sending that message into. Especially with the attention politically motivated gun voilence has been getting.

And it would still be strange for any other business imo if slightly less immediately dangerous.

(Also how do the squad qualify as the four horsemen, and wouldn't wingnut Rapture Enthusiasts see the four horsemen as the good guys?)

[JBS]

Nut they must realise the political climate they're sending that message into. Especially with the attention politically motivayed gun voilence has been getting.

And it would still be strange for any other business imo if slightly less immediately dangerous.

(Also how do the squad qualify as the four horsemen, and wouldn't wingnut Rapture Enthusiasts see the four horsemen as the good guys?)

It's one of the Trumpiest parts of North Carolina. They probably think they are "owning the libs".

As to the last part... calling them the Four Horsemen is, I agree, odd. I have no idea what Rapturists think of the Horsemen, but they do seem to have somewhat less of an influence...their prominence a decade or so ago was simply the result of the Left Behind series attaining best seller status, kind of like Shades of Grey, and faded now. (The "gun rights" movement actually has a fairly high proportion of outright atheists and Christian believers who don't flaunt their belief, so its religious profile is not as rabid as you might think.)

[BasilValentine]

Delete the name of the business and where can you find any suggestion of violence?

I have to sharply disagree with you on this. To me, this is one of those instances where partisanship has manufactured an outrage that does not exist.

As I said, if calling someone an idiot is inciting violence, almost every one here is guilty of inciting violencd against Trump.

Let me translate for you:

"The final battle is coming, it's us against these dark people taking over Congress and the country, time to buy your gun. (Just a mile ahead on the right!)" Got it now?

[71 dB]

Apparently I am blind, because there is no suggestion at all. The owner of the gun store is expressing his opinion that the four congresswomen are idiots.  He is not suggesting anyone do anything.

May I express my opinion that the owner of the gun store is an idiot who doesn't understand how problematic this is. Apparently you are almost as idiotic.

The truth is these four congresswoman are superb and rare examples of politicians in the US trying to make not only the US but the whole World better.  That's MY opinion.

[SimonNZ]

You know...you fly into a rage whenever someone suggests you may be less than all-knowing, but are happy to accuse other of being "brainwashed" or "idiotic" when presenting THEIR opinion without seeing any problem.

[drogulus]

     McConnell's new posture toward Moscow

     Dana Milbank gets credit for pointing out how Mitch has been aligning the interests of the Kentucky oblast with Moscow Center. In his latest episode Milbank shows how not sorry he is.

McConnell himself had championed the oligarchs' cause before. After the Trump administration last year exempted Deripaska-related enterprises from sanctions, a bipartisan rebellion attempted to reinstate the sanctions (House Republicans joined Democrats in a 362-to-53 vote), but McConnell led a successful effort in the Senate to thwart the rebellion, which he called a "political stunt." (In exchange for sanctions relief, Deripaska agreed to reduce his ownership in Rusal's parent company, but Deripaska could retain de facto control .)

Three months later, the Russian aluminum giant announced its $200 million investment in Kentucky. McConnell declared in May that his vote to exempt Deripaska enterprises from sanctions was "completely unrelated."

     To be a Russian oligarch that is not dead or a little bit poisoned or getting beat up while in jail for embezzling state funds is to be aligned with Putin. I'd do that in a heartbeat, if I wanted it to keep beating. Mitch OTOH is safe enough to cooperate entirely for his own advantage.

[Karl Henning]

This is not going anywhere. You are totally brainwashed by the corporate media.

It's not going anywhere, because you're johnny one-note.

[71 dB]

It's not going anywhere, because you're johnny one-note.

I C 

I admit saying the same things over and over again is tiresome...

I try to distance myself from this and do more pleasant things such as listening to music. Following American politics has taxed heavily my music listening time which has dropped to a fraction of what it used to be. Had Hillary won all of this wouldn't have happen... 

[SimonNZ]

McConnnell launches statewide attack ad against Democratic Senate challenger

"Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and his Democratic challenger are fighting about an ad his campaign released about her "extreme" record on abortion that Amy McGrath claimed has doctored audio that misrepresents her position.

The radio and digital ad includes clips from a McGrath fundraiser in 2018, during her unsuccessful congressional race, and an interview with Kentucky's WVLK radio during the campaign.

"I am further left, I am more progressive than anybody in the state of Kentucky," McGrath is heard saying in a clip from her fundraiser in McConnell's ad.
In the WVLK interview clip, McGrath is heard saying "I don't think government should be involved in making decisions on a woman's body."

The narrator of McConnell's ad said McGrath "supports late term abortion" and said the Democrat's pro-choice response "sounds more like a liberal Democrat from New York or California."

McGrath's campaign is planning to launch its own targeted ads in response on Friday, including TV, digital and radio spots.

In the radio ad, which McGrath's campaign shared with The Hill on Thursday, McGrath directly addresses McConnell's radio ad. 

"This is Amy McGrath, and you might have heard Mitch McConnell's ad using my voice, where it sounds like I say I'm further left than anyone in Kentucky. But it's doctored audio. He cut off half the sentence," she said.

McGrath said the line was in reference to her not taking money from gun lobbyists and compared herself to others who served in office.

"And then of course I don't support late term abortions, Mitch McConnell is cutting out my words and lying to you," she says in the ad.

In interviews during her 2018 congressional campaign, which she lost, McGrath defended her abortion rights views.

McGrath's campaign said it also releasing a 60-second TV ad which reinforces the message in her campaign launch video earlier this month that McConnell represents "everything that's wrong in Washington."

McGrath, a retired Marine, narrowly lost the midterm to incumbent Republican Rep. Andy Barr, in the Republican stronghold district.

She raised $2.5 million the first day of her campaign."


AMY MCGRATH ACCUSES MITCH MCCONNELL OF USING 'DOCTORED AUDIO' TO MISLEAD KENTUCKIANS IN HEATED 2020 SENATE RACE

[SimonNZ]

El Paso Shooter Identified Online As Trump Supporter Who Didn't Like 'Race Mixing'

"The suspect in a deadly mass shooting at a shopping mall in El Paso, Texas, on Saturday was widely identified on the internet as a young white man whose social media activity showed support and sympathy for the president's apparent white nationalist agenda. The name and photos of a man purported to be Patrick Crusius quickly circulated across Twitter in the hours after the shooting that first began outside a Walmart store at Cielo Vista Mall was first reported. If those reports were accurate, Crusius, allegedly a Texas native, just turned 21 last week.

While officials did not immediately announce the identity of the shooter, the Washington Examiner reported that "A law enforcement source in El Paso told the Washington Examiner that 21-year-old suspect Patrick Crusius from Dallas, Texas, has been taken into custody."

A manifesto purportedly written by Crusius, perhaps even in the hours before the shooting attack that according to one report left at least 15 people dead, was left behind. Pages of the manifesto included anti-immigrant rhetoric with the author going into depth on why he is "against race mixing," supports the idea to "send them back" and offering a prediction of "genocide."

[Karl Henning]

We have learned nothing from each other.

This is very sad, for the very reason that, of course, you can speak only for yourself.

[Karl Henning]

I C 

I admit saying the same things over and over again is tiresome...

That's a minor problem, compared to your fallacy of discounting someone's informed, reasonable disagreement with you, as "brainwashing."

To what conditioning on your own part are you refusing to own?

[drogulus]

     

El Paso Shooter Identified Online As Trump Supporter Who Didn't Like 'Race Mixing'

[drogulus]

     

El Paso Shooter Identified Online As Trump Supporter Who Didn't Like 'Race Mixing'

    Everyone who thought Trump was not a dangerous demagogue who was inciting violence has some explaining to do. The incitement is producing the predicted violence. Do we need more proof?

    We do need better gun laws. We don't need a better dangerous demagogue law. The one we have should be used. Trump is vicious, publicly, repeatedly, continuously. He should be stopped.

[SimonNZ]

Nine dead in Dayton, Ohio, in second mass shooting in 24 hours
Incident comes hours after at least 20 people died in another mass shooting in El Paso, Texas

[71 dB]

That's a minor problem, compared to your fallacy of discounting someone's informed, reasonable disagreement with you, as "brainwashing."

To what conditioning on your own part are you refusing to own?

Minor problem, hahah.  My claim here has been that left-leaning ideologies are popular and in the rise in the US. For some reason some people here have hard time believing that and the only explanation for this is corporate media brainwashing.

From European perspective Americans are brainwashed. It's an Overton Window thing. It's corruption and how corporate media is bought by corporations. If you really think MSNBC, CNN and Fox News are more reliable sources of information than independent politics Youtubers you really ARE brainwashed. If you believe Washington Post's attack on Bernie you really are brainwashed. Not only that, but bad at critical thinking. 

Here is a fine example by CNN talking about Finland so I can definitely comment on it since I live in that country. Since Bernie Sanders has been talking about Finnish healthcare system (ranked among one of the best in the World) and how it could serve as a model for the US (whose healthcare system ranks the worst of all western developped countries), CNN is trying to paint a picture where the healthcare system of Finland is failing implying the US should not go into that direction.

However, it's all smear. Look at the like/dislike ratio of that video. Read the comments. The former government of Finland was very right wing (the worst I have seen in my life now thankfully replaced by a left-learning government) and it tried to privatize more parts of healthcare. It could not do that because Finland is not an oligarchy so they failed. It doesn't mean Finnish healthcare is collapsing. The system needs reforms because people get older and the need for care increases. People interviewed bring these problem (faced by other countries too) up and CNN turns this into a claim that the healthcare system in Finland is fundamentally faulty (being single payer) and the US should keep it's for-profit system.

When corporate media talks about waiting times, it's smear. In Finland and I believe in all single payer countries people get help fast if they really need it. Care is rationed by need. In the US care is rationed by the size of your wallet. If you are uninsured you wait until you're dead. The corporate media also uses anecdotal horror stories: In every country things can go very wrong sometimes, but that doesn't tell how the system functions overall. The corporate media frames the data cynically not to give a precise picture of the subject, but to advance their agenda: Protect corporate intrests. Now you say the lefty youtubers have an agenda too. Yes, absolutely, but what is that agenda? Who are they protecting? Whose money do they take? Oh, that would be the regular people who donate them $10/month on Patrion because they are sick and tired of the oligarchy and want change. So, what is the incentive for people like Kyle Kulinski to lie? If regular people felt he lies they would stop donating him $10/month. Also, for people brainwashed by corporate media it can be hard to believe some people are actually principled and genuinely want the best for all Americans. Kyle Kulinski loves the US and fights to make it better. That's what the left does. That is their agenda.


https://www.youtube.com/v/einf86cv3kY

[drogulus]

     Its true that a sufficiently right wing government can fail a health care system, and they will do it on purpose if they are allowed to. Look at how Repubs and Trump have tried to undermine US health care. Blowing up the system and de-insuring millions to remove the Obama taint has been the party program for almost a decade. They've had all this time to develop an alternative and can't even come up with an evil one!

[SimonNZ]

Minor problem, hahah.  My claim here has been that left-leaning ideologies are popular and in the rise in the US. For some reason some people here have hard time believing that and the only explanation for this is corporate media brainwashing.

From European perspective Americans are brainwashed. It's an Overton Window thing. It's corruption and how corporate media is bought by corporations. If you really think MSNBC, CNN and Fox News are more reliable sources of information than independent politics Youtubers you really ARE brainwashed. If you believe Washington Post's attack on Bernie you really are brainwashed. Not only that, but bad at critical thinking. 

Here is a fine example by CNN talking about Finland so I can definitely comment on it since I live in that country. Since Bernie Sanders has been talking about Finnish healthcare system (ranked among one of the best in the World) and how it could serve as a model for the US (whose healthcare system ranks the worst of all western developped countries), CNN is trying to paint a picture where the healthcare system of Finland is failing implying the US should not go into that direction.

However, it's all smear. Look at the like/dislike ratio of that video. Read the comments. The former government of Finland was very right wing (the worst I have seen in my life now thankfully replaced by a left-learning government) and it tried to privatize more parts of healthcare. It could not do that because Finland is not an oligarchy so they failed. It doesn't mean Finnish healthcare is collapsing. The system needs reforms because people get older and the need for care increases. People interviewed bring these problem (faced by other countries too) up and CNN turns this into a claim that the healthcare system in Finland is fundamentally faulty (being single payer) and the US should keep it's for-profit system.

When corporate media talks about waiting times, it's smear. In Finland and I believe in all single payer countries people get help fast if they really need it. Care is rationed by need. In the US care is rationed by the size of your wallet. If you are uninsured you wait until you're dead. The corporate media also uses anecdotal horror stories: In every country things can go very wrong sometimes, but that doesn't tell how the system functions overall. The corporate media frames the data cynically not to give a precise picture of the subject, but to advance their agenda: Protect corporate intrests. Now you say the lefty youtubers have an agenda too. Yes, absolutely, but what is that agenda? Who are they protecting? Whose money do they take? Oh, that would be the regular people who donate them $10/month on Patrion because they are sick and tired of the oligarchy and want change. So, what is the incentive for people like Kyle Kulinski to lie? If regular people felt he lies they would stop donating him $10/month. Also, for people brainwashed by corporate media it can be hard to believe some people are actually principled and genuinely want the best for all Americans. Kyle Kulinski loves the US and fights to make it better. That's what the left does.

Do you get any of your information from...books?

Or is that just so much more corporate owned media?

[JBS]

Minor problem, hahah.  My claim here has been that left-leaning ideologies are popular and in the rise in the US. For some reason some people here have hard time believing that and the only explanation for this is corporate media brainwashing.

From European perspective Americans are brainwashed. It's an Overton Window thing. It's corruption and how corporate media is bought by corporations. If you really think MSNBC, CNN and Fox News are more reliable sources of information than independent politics Youtubers you really ARE brainwashed. If you believe Washington Post's attack on Bernie you really are brainwashed. Not only that, but bad at critical thinking. 

Here is a fine example by CNN talking about Finland so I can definitely comment on it since I live in that country. Since Bernie Sanders has been talking about Finnish healthcare system (ranked among one of the best in the World) and how it could serve as a model for the US (whose healthcare system ranks the worst of all western developped countries), CNN is trying to paint a picture where the healthcare system of Finland is failing implying the US should not go into that direction.

However, it's all smear. Look at the like/dislike ratio of that video. Read the comments. The former government of Finland was very right wing (the worst I have seen in my life now thankfully replaced by a left-learning government) and it tried to privatize more parts of healthcare. It could not do that because Finland is not an oligarchy so they failed. It doesn't mean Finnish healthcare is collapsing. The system needs reforms because people get older and the need for care increases. People interviewed bring these problem (faced by other countries too) up and CNN turns this into a claim that the healthcare system in Finland is fundamentally faulty (being single payer) and the US should keep it's for-profit system.

When corporate media talks about waiting times, it's smear. In Finland and I believe in all single payer countries people get help fast if they really need it. Care is rationed by need. In the US care is rationed by the size of your wallet. If you are uninsured you wait until you're dead. The corporate media also uses anecdotal horror stories: In every country things can go very wrong sometimes, but that doesn't tell how the system functions overall. The corporate media frames the data cynically not to give a precise picture of the subject, but to advance their agenda: Protect corporate intrests. Now you say the lefty youtubers have an agenda too. Yes, absolutely, but what is that agenda? Who are they protecting? Whose money do they take? Oh, that would be the regular people who donate them $10/month on Patrion because they are sick and tired of the oligarchy and want change. So, what is the incentive for people like Kyle Kulinski to lie? If regular people felt he lies they would stop donating him $10/month. Also, for people brainwashed by corporate media it can be hard to believe some people are actually principled and genuinely want the best for all Americans. Kyle Kulinski loves the US and fights to make it better. That's what the left does. That is their agenda.


https://www.youtube.com/v/einf86cv3kY

There are so many bad assumptions here it's hard to say where to start.

But let me start with a simple one. 
No health care system is rationed by wallet.  No health care system is rationed by need.  Every health care system is rationed by bureaucrats. In Finland they are bureaucrats who are government employees using their judgment to apply the standards used by the Finnish health care system with an eye on spending the least amount possible.  In the US  they are bureaucrats who are private employees using their judgment to apply the standards of the US health care system with an eye on spending the least amount possible.    The only real difference between the two systems is who pays the bureaucrats's salaries.

People who need care get it quickly in the US, especially if they live in urban areas.   We have public hospitals, established by and part of the local governments, where anyone can go for care.  They all have emergency rooms.  The horror stories in the US revolve around the fact that the local governments routinely underfund and understaff these hospitals, so that long wait times are the norm for anything that's not a true emergency.  Americans see how badly public hospitals can be run, and when they see single payer plans they understand that involves all hospitals becoming like public hospitals, underfunded and understaffed.  They see how Medicare and Medicare don't pay for new therapies or expensive therapies despite the need, and understand that approach will typify any single payer program.

I am sure Kulinksi is sincere, but he's advocating, not reporting.  He's trying to convince people that his policies should be adopted.  So he only presents things that help him towards that goal. I gave you an example of one important omission in his "reporting".  If you are not a progressive, then you won't think his ideas will make America better.  You may even think they will make it worse.  This is not a result of corporate brainwashing.  This is a result of Americans using their own minds to decide for themselves.  Remember, I am not saying that CNN, etc are more trustworthy than Kulinksi et al.  I am saying Kulinski et all are just as untrustworthy as they are.  What you call smears are really facts.  And I could easily point out that most of the "facts" the Youtubers aim at Harris and others are just as much smears as anything CNN says about Sanders.

People are talking about leftist politicians more then before, but that's because the corporate media you hate is talking about them more.  And more often than not, when they talk about those leftists they notice the flaws in their ideas.  I don't need CNN to tell me what's wrong with the Green New Deal (especially since to the best of my knowledge CNN or any of the MSM is not talking about what's wrong with the Green New Deal). I just need to read the Green New Deal and listen to what people like AOC say about to understand the fundamental flaws it has: a complete government takeover of most of the American economy that won't actually produce the results its advocates say it will...but will have a lot of bad consequences flowing from the mere attempt to implement it.

You have no problem admitting you are a Leftist.  Which means you are biased in favor of progressive policies and biased against conservative policies. If you were a true critical thinker, you would take pains to ensure your biases are not hindering your judgment of the facts.   But you aren't...otherwise you would be far less enthusiastic about the US Left.  You see the media paying attention to AOC and others,  and mistake that for the American public at large being more enthusiastic about them.  It's not so. GMG has a respectable number of members who express political opinions (and an even bigger number who don't). It seems that most of those who express political opinions are to the left side of the spectrum...which means that the Left is over-represented here compared to the general US population.  Bear that in mind, too.  And there is no Overton window effect.  America is less socially conservative than it was a generation ago, but in all other matters it is no more and no less conservative than it used to be. 

You are letting your sources mislead you.  And you are doing so by not exercising the critical thinking you claim to value.

[JBS]

     
    Everyone who thought Trump was not a dangerous demagogue who was inciting violence has some explaining to do. The incitement is producing the predicted violence. Do we need more proof?

    We do need better gun laws. We don't need a better dangerous demagogue law. The one we have should be used. Trump is vicious, publicly, repeatedly, continuously. He should be stopped.

Focusing on Trump obscures the greater problem.

Much of what he says is merely channeling what people on the right say.  Go to RW forums and you will find plenty of people complaining about Cental American migrants "invading" the US...and they did so before Trump started to use the word.   For many of them, the invasion has no racial or ethnic overtones....they just see people different from themselves who they are convinced will help impose policies they oppose and impose taxes they don't want.  But whether or not they are indulging in covert racism, it bleeds over into the overt racism found in the El Paso shooter.  It's all part of the same environment, and Trump is really just a symptom, not a cause. His words and actions may help motivate the white supremacists, but they would be there, and just as dangerous, without him.