Your favorite recordings of Beethoven's 9th symphony

[Sorin Eushayson]

Yes, preconception can certainly enter into it. But there is a feeling of inherent rightness in a slightly faster tempo. Try Hogwood, for example. Slower than the usual, but faster than Norrington. That sounds about right to me.

Gardiner moves pretty quickly through the march, I like his the best of the HIP recordings.  That said, I have not heard Bruggen's, nor this:

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Weihe-Hauses-Drei-Hymn/dp/B0017SETY2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1219713614&sr=1-1

Anyone heard it yet?  From what I understand Spering's about as fast as Gardiner through the march.

[Gurn Blanston]

Gardiner moves pretty quickly through the march, I like his the best of the HIP recordings.  That said, I have not heard Bruggen's, nor this:


Anyone heard it yet?  From what I understand Spering's about as fast as Gardiner through the march.

I like Gardiner's whole cycle a lot, although that puts me in the minority here (one of many things, I suppose ). Yes, he certainly zips through the Turkish section, but not so fast that the players can't do it.

Spering will be mine upon release. I wish the picture was sharp enough to show the total time of the work. The Disk 1 items are well regarded by yours truly also. Something to look forward to.



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Listening to:
Philharmonia Orchestra / Giulini Itzhak Perlman - Bia 432 Op 61 Concerto in D for Violin & Orchestra 1st mvmt - Allegro ma non troppo (cadenza: Kreisler)

[hornteacher]

I like Gardiner's whole cycle a lot, although that puts me in the minority here (one of many things, I suppose ).

Nah, I enjoy the Gardiner cycle as well especially the Eroica and 5th.  The finale of the 7th lacks drive in my humble opinion but overall its my 2nd favorite cycle (after the Mackerras/RLO).

[MichaelRabin]

And these are on my wishlist:
Karajan/BPO (1970s)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland Orchestra
Fricsay/BPO

Just located the Fricsay in Singapore this weekend. It's great and NLA but you can get it as a download from the DG website. I prefer to buy the CD.

[Sorin Eushayson]

I like Gardiner's whole cycle a lot, although that puts me in the minority here (one of many things, I suppose ). Yes, he certainly zips through the Turkish section, but not so fast that the players can't do it.

Spering will be mine upon release. I wish the picture was sharp enough to show the total time of the work. The Disk 1 items are well regarded by yours truly also. Something to look forward to.

I finally got my hands on it, and I must say, it's marvelous.  The acoustics could have been better, but after it gets going you don't even notice.  The tempi are nigh on perfect and the performance has real fire.  Highly recommended.

[Brian]

I like Gardiner's whole cycle a lot, although that puts me in the minority here (one of many things, I suppose ). Yes, he certainly zips through the Turkish section, but not so fast that the players can't do it.

Spering will be mine upon release. I wish the picture was sharp enough to show the total time of the work. The Disk 1 items are well regarded by yours truly also. Something to look forward to.

TT for Spering's Ninth: [59'54"]
[I.] 13'47" [II.] 13'13" [III.] 11'13" [IV.] 21'41"

Given Spering's incredible performances of Kalliwoda's Fifth and Seventh Symphonies (also with Das Neue Orchester), this one should be pretty good. The timings don't indicate anything too "bold" or "ground-breaking", but Spering and the Neue Orchester are a spunky bunch with an exciting (though wind- and brass-heavy) sound.

[AdamR]

Sloppy mess or great recording?

I listened to this for the first time yesterday. Honestly, I wasn't thrilled with my purchase. Here's the thing: I want to get to know Beethoven's 9th this year. And I've heard that this recording is fantastic. I want to like Beethoven's 9th and I want to like Furtwangler's reading of it with Bayreuth.

But I found myself not connecting with the piece very well. Has anyone else struggled with liking this work?

And, in regards to Furtwangler, I found the ensemble to be horribly sloppy. Not just in places, but in whole sections. (For example, what's up with the horn?) Has anyone else struggled with liking this conductor in this work and, in particular, in this performance?

Now, I don't want this thread to turn into a "You have to hear Furtwangler '54, etc. in order to really hear his conception" discussion. I understand that Furtwangler's Schenkerian approach is part of what makes his interpretation classic. But, aren't there other conductors who bring a similar approach and do it without the poor ensemble work represented here?

Some specific questions:
1. What makes this reading classic (or not so much) in your mind?
2. Any suggestions for digging into Beethoven's 9th?
3. Any suggestions for how I can understand and enjoy Furtwangler's performance here better?

Thanks in advance.

[Renfield]

Sloppy mess or great recording?

A sloppy mess of a great recording.

Some specific questions:
1. What makes this reading classic (or not so much) in your mind?
2. Any suggestions for digging into Beethoven's 9th?
3. Any suggestions for how I can understand and enjoy Furtwangler's performance here better?

1. Furtwängler's reading, indeed far superiorly exhibited in the 1954 Lucerne performance, is (to my non-specialist ears) much more about musical flow (esp. phrasing), attack and overall cohesion than orchestral precision, or "scoring points"*.

(The latter not meant derogatively towards those who do).

His greatness in this music is thus, again IMO, his phenomenal capacity to make it work, perhaps nowhere more observably than the third movement, that he is practically the only conductor I can think of to invest with such weight of expression.


2. Furtwängler once commented on Toscanini's 1952 RCA 9th (IIRC the first movement, my paraphrase) that every note was perfect, but the result was wrong. In a nutshell, that describes the main division between two schools of great approaches to the 9th I can think of.

Some pursue textual clarity to great extent (e.g. Toscanini, Karajan), others formal clarity (e.g. Klemperer, Vänskä); whereas others go for the proverbial jugular (e.g. Furtwängler - but in more than one way across different extant recordings, Tennstedt).

Myself, I'd recommend Karajan 1963 or 1976, Klemperer 1957 (on Testament), and Furtwängler 1954 (or 1942, for a focus on sheer intensity) as top choices, with Vänskä 2006 being the best modern (i.e. recent) one I've heard so far.


3. The Bayreuth 9th is a bit special, in that even Furtwängler famously hated it. It's brilliant in its own way, but does require significant "suspension of disbelief" to respond to. I recommend ignoring the notes, and focusing on the phrasing, and the overall "mood".

However, I will repeat that, even though a notable account, this is very far from Furtwängler's exalted best, and should be taken as such.

[Herman]

Has anyone else struggled with liking this work?

Yes, in sofar as I don't really like this work. There are a couple of good moments, but as a whole I don't think the 9th works as well as some other Beethoven symphonies.

Why do you want to like it so bad? Because you have the feeling it has to be the best? That's not necessarily true.

[Sergeant Rock]

Sloppy mess or great recording?

Both...apocalyptic recording (in a good sense   ) up until those closing bars, and then...just a complete mess. At least it ends wth a bang and not a whimper.

But this is far from my favorite Beethoven 9.

Sarge

[Bu]

I remember being blown away by this recording at first hearing. Each subsequent listen seemed to loose something and made it diminish in my opinion. Still haven't heard the various Karajan versions, but the Toscanini w/ NBC & later Szell w/ the CO strikes my fancy the most these days. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Szell w/ the CO strikes my fancy the most these days. 

Sarge

[Bu]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeell yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!

*stops headbanging*

You're into Bukowski, too.........coooooooooooool!!!!

[Sergeant Rock]

Heeeeeeeeeeeeell yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah!

*stops headbanging*

You're into Bukowski, too.........coooooooooooool!!!!

Yes, Szell and Bukowski...my heroes 

Sarge

[imperfection]

The 1942 has even worse sound (no duh), more annoying audience noises, and clearly audible surface noise. But its historical significance and sheer depth of expression puts it on my Greatest Recordings Ever Made of Anything By Anyone list.

[Bu]

Yes, Szell and Bukowski...my heroes 

Sarge

I heard they were drinking buddies ...........

[Que]

The Bayreuth Furtwängler LvB 9th as the definitive performance of this work, by Furtwängler or anyone else, is a big myth fostered by EMI and a legion of reviewers.

I fully agree with Renfield that THE Furtwängler LvB 9th is the Lucerne '54 by a loooooong stretch: superior sound, superior playing, and a coherent and much more satisfactory rendition of FW's conception as a whole. Truly a LvB 9th for the ages. The story that the EMI recording actually consists of material of more than one performance fits with its incoherency.

Other great performances are: Furtwängler's '42, Kletzki and Jochum with the Concertgebouworkest. Klemperer's '57 on Testament is much better than his EMI but not in the top league IMO. I'm still hoping (and waiting) for a top period performance.

Q

[Holden]

Yes, I agree that this is a much overhyped recording - I own it and haven't listened to it in years. I have the Lucerne '54 and it's so much better but it's still not a definitive version.

I searched for many years for a CD recording of the 9th to replace my LP versions and frankly I struggled. Then I came across the Fricsay version and to me it stood head and shoulders above anything else I'd heard. It wasn't orchestrally bloated, the tempos made sense and the choral work was outstanding.

I want to hear what a choir is singing, I want to hear the soloists giving their best and a conductor who knows how to balance this. Fricsay was a master in this respect and his LvB 9th stands at the top of my list - historical or otherwise.

[david johnson]

i gave mine away out of disappointment.

dj

[George]

Thanks for the reminder about Fricsay, Holden. I need to revisit that one.