Fidel Castro has died aged 90.

Started by vandermolen, November 26, 2016, 10:57:41 AM

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vandermolen

Can't believe that he was leader when I was 4!
Any views?
Especially interested in what our American friends here think.
Will it make any difference to anything?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kishnevi

For once, I think Trump's full official statement is perfectly on target.
For what Cuban exiles are thinking, I suspect Gloria Estefan's statement is a good summary
https://m.facebook.com/gloriaestefan/photos/a.10151036376221673.423063.74681301672/10153846991641673/?type=3&source=48

Todd

Quote from: vandermolen on November 26, 2016, 10:57:41 AM
Will it make any difference to anything?


It will probably make further normalization of relations between the US and Cuba an easier and smoother undertaking.  I'll say that's a good thing.

Also, Castro's death provides a much needed hit for the Death List for this year, which has been very slow since summer.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Ken B

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 26, 2016, 11:04:50 AM
For once, I think Trump's full official statement is perfectly on target.
For what Cuban exiles are thinking, I suspect Gloria Estefan's statement is a good summary
https://m.facebook.com/gloriaestefan/photos/a.10151036376221673.423063.74681301672/10153846991641673/?type=3&source=48
Indeed.

ahinton

#4
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2016, 11:15:04 AM

It will probably make further normalization of relations between the US and Cuba an easier and smoother undertaking.  I'll say that's a good thing.

Also, Castro's death provides a much needed hit for the Death List for this year, which has been very slow since summer.
Then who might you hope or expect to be next and how soon?

Todd

Quote from: ahinton on November 26, 2016, 01:26:17 PM
The who might you hope or expect to be next and how soon?


Kinda.  The Death List.  A cheerful British site.  2017 names are already being discussed. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Turner

Corbyn, Junker, Higgins, Khamenei, Trudeau -
five delusional statements following the dictator´s death:
http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/26/five-worst-responses-fidel-castro-death

ComposerOfAvantGarde

I've always had mixed feelings about his leadership and conservative viewpoints, but he has certainly been a figurehead in 20th century politics especially for his speeches about poverty, and in the 90s his stance on climate change and anti-apartheid views. I am sure that he will be missed.

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: Turner on November 26, 2016, 02:10:41 PM
Corbyn, Junker, Higgins, Khamenei, Trudeau -
five delusional statements following the dictator´s death:
http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/26/five-worst-responses-fidel-castro-death
It's kind of dumb to only talk about the positive aspects of any leader's policies and personality. Castro did many wrong things for the right reasons though, and I personally dont like his leadership style very much. For progressive politicians who are praising a much more socially conservative leader just goes to show that the principle of 'the ends justify the means' is unfortuantely common worldwide, not just within single party systems.

Ken B

Quote from: jessop on November 26, 2016, 02:36:09 PM
I've always had mixed feelings about his leadership and conservative viewpoints, but he has certainly been a figurehead in 20th century politics especially for his speeches about poverty, and in the 90s his stance on climate change and anti-apartheid views. I am sure that he will be missed.
He was a murderer who had children shot. Did you not know this or did you not care?

ComposerOfAvantGarde

Quote from: Ken B on November 26, 2016, 03:55:01 PM
He was a murderer who had children shot. Did you not know this or did you not care?
I do know and do care about this. As I've stated, I'm don't like the things he has done. He did things which I abhor, he held views which I find terribly socially conservative and worryingly nationalist, and through this he was able to create a nation with admirable education and healthcare and environmentalism. Ultimately I would say that despite all the good he intended and achieved, this doesn't erase the human rights violations that occurred because of him. In my own country there have been politicians whom I admire for some things but absolutely despise due to the human rights violations that they have imposed on the most vulnerable members of our society. No politician is completely good and no politician is completely bad. I hate having the appearance of being a fence sitter, but what I hate even more is when politicians are receiving only universal praise or universal disgust.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Turner on November 26, 2016, 02:10:41 PM
Corbyn, Junker, Higgins, Khamenei, Trudeau -
five delusional statements following the dictator´s death:
http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/26/five-worst-responses-fidel-castro-death

Geez, about what you would expect, I guess. If they were intelligent, they wouldn't be in politics.

Quote from: jessop on November 26, 2016, 02:36:09 PM
I've always had mixed feelings about his leadership and conservative viewpoints, but he has certainly been a figurehead in 20th century politics especially for his speeches about poverty, and in the 90s his stance on climate change and anti-apartheid views. I am sure that he will be missed.

A nicely political view. In fact, nearly everyone hated him, because they feared him. There is a large wave of Stockholm Syndrome, which is always apparent in countries in that situation. Look at North Korea for a good example of this.  Walk around Miami and talk to some of the old people who were able to flee, leaving everything behind, including family who were often imprisoned for life to pay the price for their escape. 

I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic in your last sentence... Please lord, let it be sarcasm...  :)

8)
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Monsieur Croche

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on November 26, 2016, 11:04:50 AM
For once, I think Trump's full official statement is perfectly on target.
For what Cuban exiles are thinking, I suspect Gloria Estefan's statement is a good summary
https://m.facebook.com/gloriaestefan/photos/a.10151036376221673.423063.74681301672/10153846991641673/?type=3&source=48

Indeed, and well said, Ms. Estefan.
~ I'm all for personal expression; it just has to express something to me. ~

Florestan

Quote from: Monsieur Croche on November 26, 2016, 07:59:22 PM
Indeed, and well said, Ms. Estefan.

+ 1

Justin Trudeau, on the other hand, might have achieved the top of idiocy by calling Castro as Cuba´s "longest serving president". As TheReason.com comments, "[this is] a feat less impressive when you factor in the fact that Castro's one-party government never held a free election."

Bottom line, one brutal tyrant less in the world. Several others still to go.
"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

vandermolen

Very interesting replies - thanks.
BBC's coverage was balanced this morning I think.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

ahinton

#15
Quote from: Todd on November 26, 2016, 01:34:23 PM

Kinda.  The Death List.  A cheerful British site.  2017 names are already being discussed.
Cheerful to those who apparently have nothing better to do than either compile or update or read it, one could say.

By the way, has that nice chap Bobby Mugabe commented yet?

Ken B

Quote from: Florestan on November 27, 2016, 01:15:34 AM
+ 1

Justin Trudeau, on the other hand, might have achieved the top of idiocy by calling Castro as Cuba´s "longest serving president". As TheReason.com comments, "[this is] a feat less impressive when you factor in the fact that Castro's one-party government never held a free election."

Bottom line, one brutal tyrant less in the world. Several others still to go.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/fidel-castro-dies-justin-trudeau-issues-statement-much-hilarity-ensues-trudeaueulogies
More here. Scroll down for Canadian replies, including about Romania.

Florestan

Quote from: Ken B on November 27, 2016, 05:24:00 AM
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/fidel-castro-dies-justin-trudeau-issues-statement-much-hilarity-ensues-trudeaueulogies
More here. Scroll down for Canadian replies, including about Romania.

Though not universally liked by his compatriots, Mr. Ceausescu was a leader in urban design and affordable housing:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy


Parsifal

Everything I know about Castro comes from Woody Allen's old film Bananas