The Barber Chair

Started by Szykneij, August 13, 2007, 06:50:40 AM

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snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 02, 2017, 07:58:51 PM
Let me add that Barber's Capricorn Concerto is a great work.

Awright... let's break out the Clark... around here... somewhere...

Rons_talking

Quote from: snyprrr on December 30, 2016, 01:16:41 PM
Piano Sonata

Heard it for the first time today. Hey, not at ALL what I expected. "American Romantic",... uh,....NO!! And I wasn't expecting the two quick movements to be so angular and bleepy/bloopy,... in all I was quite impressed! It just sounded "modern" to me, but it is obviously of a conservative modernism, but, it sure isn't Rachy or anything, or Copland and such. It seemed very thoughtful, though I felt it was a bit rushed as a Composition, like he wanted to get it over with or something, a bit short to be the Big American Piano Sonata. But, it has a sheen, sports car American Academic, thoughtful, sincere, with some turbo charging- Barber doesn't really sissy out here, and I say again that I was pleasantly surprised. I might even give the whole SQ a go (Tokyo SQ;RCA).

So, is my assessment correct?- a bit more badass than I had a right to expect?,... or, I just didn't know Sammy?

In my opinion, it's one of Barber's masterworks. He certainly isn't fooling around! It's as if he read remarks asserting his style was all soft, pretty and lyrical and he responded, saying "hum this!" The power in the semitone motive as well as the cascading fourths and down-right audacious change of phrase, mood and register makes it one of my favourite "power sonatas." Another is Session's 2nd PS written around the same time. The Barber Sonata is a thrill to hear...I'm surprised more pianists don't perform it. But that's another story.

Mirror Image

Quote from: snyprrr on January 03, 2017, 12:08:58 PM
Awright... let's break out the Clark... around here... somewhere...

Let me know what you think about once you've revisited it.

snyprrr

Quote from: Mirror Image on January 03, 2017, 06:38:38 PM
Let me know what you think about once you've revisited it.

1) I always remember the impact of the opening of the Mercury recording, very alive, but I haven't had that one around...

2) So, I have it as an "also-ran" on the Albany/TROY recording with Keith Clark conducting. Now, all items here, Barber, Copland, and Harris, I believe were recorded at different times and locations,... I believe,... and, of course, it works great for the Harris, but, and I remember having this issue the last time I listened to the Barber, is, the sound here isn't as sumptuous as one might hope for: it's fine and all, but a little wanting in that "alive" factor I recall from the Mercury.

So, then, the music has to do the trick. I noticed the principles are all famous musicians (Plog on trumpet!, DeTullio, flute...), so, the playing is fine.

Well...

OK, there's that "Neo-Classical", "concerto grosso", Stravinsky=Copland kind of opening (I also heard some Harrisness towards the end of the piece). And it's off,... but, and I was really paying attention and all, but I was starting to,.. to,.. to,... oy, it's only 11mins., I've got 7 to go!!

So, first off, at 18mins., it just seemed a little long. As a Neo-Classical piece, I would have loved if Igor had perhaps looked it over and said he liked it but here's where you can make some cuts... and, at this point in my listening, that opening figure just grates on me as a typical Igor-ism. BUT- I do surely have a feeling that the Mercury might change my mind. Hold on, let me YT it...


(later)


OK, so, even the opening of the Mercury emits blazing energy, which I don't get from Clark. And the sound is in your face good.

So, that screws my whole..... is this piece really 18mins. long??


Eh,.. sorry, John, whatever the piece's merits, I think there's something up with the Clark. Can someone else tell me what's up here- just a energy draining recording??

The music seems instantly likable in the Mercury guise, seems to drag on in the Albany?


I waaas surprised by Copland's 'Prairie Radio Music'. I wasn't expecting "real" music here, but, it sounds like one of his best pieces, imo. Huh.


So, yea, there was other music on that Harris gettysburg CD, LOL!! :laugh:

vandermolen

#204
As all the local record shops have sadly closed down and the musical instrument shop has sold off all their remaining CDs (I purchased five  >:D) I only have the local HMV shop whose classical selection ('Mozart's a Greatest Hits' etc) diminishes with each visit. Therefore I was delighted to find this CD, unknown to me, on their shelves today. Frankly it is sensational in regard to all three works. The Randall Thompson is a very nice life-affirming score with a highly memorable opening movement and it should be much better known. When I heard that young Samuel Adams ( born 1985) incorporated electronic elements in his music I was not expecting much but I loved his 'Drift and Providence' and found it much more approachable and tonal and memorable than anticipated. It is a musical depiction of the Pacific Ocean and lies IMHO on a spectrum between John Luther Adams's 'Become Ocean' and Alan Hovhaness's 'And a God Created Great Whales' - I really enjoyed it (for full orchestra, electronic devices and the composer on his laptop 😀). Best of all was the sensational performance of Barber's First Symphony - the most moving I have heard, especially the way that the final section is played slower than usual. The best performance since William Strickland with the Japanese PO and much better recorded.
[asin]B06ZZ269R9[/asin]
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Karl Henning

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 01, 2018, 08:07:26 PM
Just finished this documentary after spreading it out over a two-day period (it's around 2 hrs. in duration):



Let me just say that for anyone with any interest in this composer owes it to themselves to see this film. It may very well be the best composer documentary I've ever seen and really gets to the heart of the composer. One of the most rewarding features of this film is how it takes you through works from the very beginning until the end of the composer's life. Two parts of this film I found particularly interesting were the discussions of the Cello Sonata and Cello Concerto. Two, IMHO, underrated works in Barber's oeuvre. A must see!

Just a note that this landed a few days ago.  I am saving it for a treat to watch when I am done with Deep Breath.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Mirror Image

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on May 14, 2018, 04:51:01 AM
Just a note that this landed a few days ago.  I am saving it for a treat to watch when I am done with Deep Breath.

Great stuff, Karl. 8)

Karl Henning

I'm looking forward to it!
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

vandermolen

"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

Quote from: vandermolen on August 18, 2017, 08:25:56 AM
As all the local record shops have sadly closed down and the musical instrument shop has sold off all their remaining CDs (I purchased five  >:D) I only have the local HMV shop whose classical selection ('Mozart's a Greatest Hits' etc) diminishes with each visit. Therefore I was delighted to find this CD, unknown to me, on their shelves today. Frankly it is sensational in regard to all three works. The Randall Thompson is a very nice life-affirming score with a highly memorable opening movement and it should be much better known. When I heard that young Samuel Adams ( born 1985) incorporated electronic elements in his music I was not expecting much but I loved his 'Drift and Providence' and found it much more approachable and tonal and memorable than anticipated. It is a musical depiction of the Pacific Ocean and lies IMHO on a spectrum between John Luther Adams's 'Become Ocean' and Alan Hovhaness's 'And a God Created Great Whales' - I really enjoyed it (for full orchestra, electronic devices and the composer on his laptop 😀). Best of all was the sensational performance of Barber's First Symphony - the most moving I have heard, especially the way that the final section is played slower than usual. The best performance since William Strickland with the Japanese PO and much better recorded.
[asin]B06ZZ269R9[/asin]

I've listened to the Thompson symphony on this recording (which is great) but not yet the Barber - on the basis of your praise I simply must!
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

Quote from: kyjo on May 14, 2018, 07:42:22 PM
I've listened to the Thompson symphony on this recording (which is great) but not yet the Barber - on the basis of your praise I simply must!
Well, I hope that you enjoy the rest of the CD as much as I did Kyle! It was great to actually find this CD unexpectedly on the shelves of my local HMV shop. Let us know what you think of the rest of the CD.
:)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

Was just listening to the Cello Concerto (Ma/Baltimore/Zinman on Sony) and was enjoying it much more than I had previously. However, I find that the finale, like that of the Violin Concerto, often succumbs to rather empty virtuosity and lacks the soulful lyricism of the first two movements.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Mirror Image

Quote from: kyjo on May 15, 2018, 11:34:16 AM
Was just listening to the Cello Concerto (Ma/Baltimore/Zinman on Sony) and was enjoying it much more than I had previously. However, I find that the finale, like that of the Violin Concerto, often succumbs to rather empty virtuosity and lacks the soulful lyricism of the first two movements.

I find nothing wrong with either concerto and love them both dearly. Also, Ma/Zinman isn't a great performance by any stretch. My preferences here are Gastinel/Brown (on Naive) and Poltera/Litton (on BIS). I've heard almost all of the performances of the Cello Concerto.

vandermolen

Quote from: kyjo on May 15, 2018, 11:34:16 AM
Was just listening to the Cello Concerto (Ma/Baltimore/Zinman on Sony) and was enjoying it much more than I had previously. However, I find that the finale, like that of the Violin Concerto, often succumbs to rather empty virtuosity and lacks the soulful lyricism of the first two movements.

I like both but probably prefer the Cello Concerto, which I knew before the VC. I agree that the first two movements of the VC are wonderful but prefer the Cello Concerto as a whole. I came across it on an old Decca Eclipse (them again!) LP in my youth, unususually coupled with Alan Rawsthorne's fine Piano Concerto 2 ( my first encounter with that excellent work as well).
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#214
Well, this is currently my favourite Barber CD:
[asin]B00000DBQY[/asin]
Jarvi Senior gets a certain amount of criticism, which I often don't subscribe to. His recording with the Detroit SO of Copland and Harris's 3rd symphonies on Chandos, for example, gets negative reviews although I've always enjoyed it. This CD combines the two symphonies, original released separately. The recording and performance of both are excellent and No.2 IMHO emerges as the equal to the magnificent No.1. Barber was mistaken to withdraw it. Both works are performed with a great sense of urgency and I immediately had to repeat the disc.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Baron Scarpia

Quote from: vandermolen on May 30, 2018, 11:14:25 AM
Well, this is currently my favourite Barber CD:
[asin]B00000DBQY[/asin]
Jarvi Senior gets a certain amount of criticism, which I often don't subscribe to. His recording with the Detroit SO of Copland and Harris's 3rd symphonies on Chandos, for example, gets negative reviews although I've always enjoyed it. This CD combines the two symphonies, original released separately. The recording and performance of both are excellent and No.2 IMHO emerges as the equal to the magnificent No.1. Barber was mistaken to withdraw it. Both works are performed with a great sense of urgency and I immediately had to repeat the disc.

I have those, should find time to listen.

vandermolen

Quote from: Baron Scarpia on May 30, 2018, 11:30:58 AM
I have those, should find time to listen.

Hope you enjoy the symphonies as much as I have. I have owned this CD for some time but was totally gripped by both performances and had forgotten, or never realised, just how good it is - the ending of No.2 had me on the edge of my seat.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Mirror Image

Quote from: vandermolen on May 30, 2018, 11:14:25 AM
Well, this is currently my favourite Barber CD:
[asin]B00000DBQY[/asin]
Jarvi Senior gets a certain amount of criticism, which I often don't subscribe to. His recording with the Detroit SO of Copland and Harris's 3rd symphonies on Chandos, for example, gets negative reviews although I've always enjoyed it. This CD combines the two symphonies, original released separately. The recording and performance of both are excellent and No.2 IMHO emerges as the equal to the magnificent No.1. Barber was mistaken to withdraw it. Both works are performed with a great sense of urgency and I immediately had to repeat the disc.

Interesting you brought up this disc, Jeffrey, as this one of the first Barber discs I've owned. I, too, do not subscribe to the Järvi 'hate club' as he's been a conductor of whom I've made so many remarkable discoveries. I also own his other Barber disc:



While I don't necessarily agree with your appraisal of Järvi's Barber, I have to say these were quite good performances until I heard Alsop's performances of all of the works that Järvi recorded. Alsop seemed to dig a bit deeper into the music. For me, Järvi is at his best in Nordic and Russian music.

vandermolen

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 30, 2018, 06:43:34 PM
Interesting you brought up this disc, Jeffrey, as this one of the first Barber discs I've owned. I, too, do not subscribe to the Järvi 'hate club' as he's been a conductor of whom I've made so many remarkable discoveries. I also own his other Barber disc:



While I don't necessarily agree with your appraisal of Järvi's Barber, I have to say these were quite good performances until I heard Alsop's performances of all of the works that Järvi recorded. Alsop seemed to dig a bit deeper into the music. For me, Järvi is at his best in Nordic and Russian music.

Thanks John. That other Barber CD is very tempting ( ::)) especially as 'Essay No.2' is one of my favourite works and not just by Barber. I have the Alsop CD of the symphonies and must listen again to it. For some reason it did not make as strong an impression on me as on everyone else. I shall look forward to hearing it again but, for the moment,I'm love that Jarvi CD. He is indeed a fine conductor of Nordic and Russian music.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

Quote from: vandermolen on May 30, 2018, 11:14:25 AM
Well, this is currently my favourite Barber CD:
[asin]B00000DBQY[/asin]
Jarvi Senior gets a certain amount of criticism, which I often don't subscribe to. His recording with the Detroit SO of Copland and Harris's 3rd symphonies on Chandos, for example, gets negative reviews although I've always enjoyed it. This CD combines the two symphonies, original released separately. The recording and performance of both are excellent and No.2 IMHO emerges as the equal to the magnificent No.1. Barber was mistaken to withdraw it. Both works are performed with a great sense of urgency and I immediately had to repeat the disc.

Thanks for this, Jeffrey. I've only listened to the 2nd Symphony in the Alsop recording on Naxos, and I didn't have a very positive reaction to it. I'll be sure to listen to the Järvi recording at some juncture. At least on first listening, the 2nd Symphony seems closer to the hard-edged style of William Schuman than to Barber's own lyrical, neo-Romanic idiom, interestingly enough. I do like the angry, percussive climax of the first movement.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff