Anglo-American 'Special Relationship'.

[vandermolen]

As the sculpted head of Winston Churchill has been moved back into the Oval Office and our new PM Theresa May has just visited the USA I thought that I would ask about this relationship, beyond the very nice ones that exist in the GMG Forum (and with many other nationalities too). Did Mrs May's visit get much coverage in the USA? The British press made a lot of the photo of President Trump and Mrs May holding hands. Personally I thought that Mrs May seemed a bit 'out of her depth' and uncomfortable during the visit. Is the 'Special Relationship' an unrequited love affair, perhaps best characterised by President Roosevelt's comment during World War Two that: 'I like Winston [Churchill] but not as much as he likes me.'?

Forgive me if we've done this before but it seems especially apposite now.

[Todd]

The May visit got a decent amount of coverage, and generally there is positive coverage about the so-called special relationship, but the Roosevelt statement still more or less holds true.  It is not a relationship of equals.  I certainly hope it remains positive, as the US has closer security ties with the English speaking world than the non-English speaking world.

[vandermolen]

The May visit got a decent amount of coverage, and generally there is positive coverage about the so-called special relationship, but Roosevelt statement still more or less holds true.  It is not a relationship of equals.  I certainly hope it remains positive, as the US has closer security ties with the English speaking world than the non-English speaking world.

Thank you Todd. That is very much my take on it too.

[Que]

Frankly, it was pretty painful to watch May pleading with Trump for closer relations, "especially now we are leaving the EU"...

Trump thought that Brexit would be "great" for the UK and he was "a 100% behind Nato".....according to May...

Somehow the UK government hopes that Trump is going to offer them a trade deal that is more advantageous to the UK than the deal that is already in place between the EU and the US. And the improved deal is supposed to make up for the economic loss on the altered trade relations with the EU.

Highly unlikely (or rather: delusional):

1) As Todd already pointed out the US and the UK are on unequal footing.
This will not be a negotiation but a situation in which the US will be stating the terms,  and protectionist "America first" Trump is not going to hand out any favours....

2) The EU is a far more important trading partner to the UK than the US.
UK trade with rest of EU: 53% of imports, 44% of exports.
UK trade with US: 8.4 % of imports, 16.6 % of exports

Bottom line: due to the strong position of the EU there already is a very good trade deal with the US, how is the UK going to get a better deal from a weakened position?

In the US there is a new name for this kind of fantasies: "alternative facts"...

UK-US trade deal will have 'very small upsides' for Britain, says former Bank of England economist

Q

[Que]

I almost forgot: the embarrassing scene is set to be repeated on a grander, more "royal" scale....

Britain has a tradition of controversial state visits – Trump will fit in well

You have to admire the ability of the UK government of making the worst of a bad situation....

Q

[Turner]

1) An area of dilemma and conflicts these days, immediately after May´s visit, is Trump´s travel ban, which he claims was set up for security reasons. It also affects at least some people with dual citizenship, or even people just born in one of the blacklisted countries; for example it is estimated that the travel ban seems to immediately hit up to 57,000 people from Denmark too. If such numbers hold, it will be significantly more people as regards the UK. Apparently, there is now a lot of confusion whether UK citizens are excepted from the procedures or not - the UK foreign minister Boris Johnson has claimed they are, but this was then rejected by the US embassy in the UK. Johnson had already taken to Twitter to say: "We will protect the rights and freedoms of UK nationals home and abroad. Divisive and wrong to stigmatise because of nationality." He avoided mentioning the religious aspect, though.

2) Another, if minor, source of political troubles domestically in the UK, is the petition for not receiving Trump on a planned state visit, which so far has received 1 mio signatures, probably reaching a good deal further signatures in the end.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/30/british-dual-citizens-will-now-allowed-travel-us-boris-johnson/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/muslim-ban-exemption-donald-trump-theresa-may-fall-out-a7552321.html

BTW, everything points to a worsening of the US-Germany relationship during a Trump presidency, which I personally wouldn´t rule out could last for 8 years, unless he is caught in obviously illegal actions.

[Spineur]

I dont know if it is because of her personality but each time I listen to Theresa May, I have the definite impression that deep down in her she does not believe in her own politics.  I always feel her expression contrived, uncertain.  Giving such an impression is not good as she wishes to lead negociations with the EU, or US, or Switzerland, or Turkey.

My feeling is her days at 10 Downing street are counted.

[zamyrabyrd]

I dont know if it is because of her personality but each time I listen to Theresa May, I have the definite impression that deep down in her she does not believe in her own politics.  I always feel her expression contrived, uncertain.  Giving such an impression is not good as she wishes to lead negociations with the EU, or US, or Switzerland, or Turkey.

Right, her expressions and body language seem to be at odds with what she is saying.

[Turner]

Or maybe the rest of us has just become too alienated from the traditional manners of the British upper classes ...

[vandermolen]

Thank you very much for all the replies and I'm inclined to agree that everything that has been said so far. It's all kicking-off here on the BBC Radio this morning over the state visit for President Trump, which some commentators have considered as premature, putting The Queen in an 'embarrassing situation' etc.

[ahinton]

Thank you very much for all the replies and I'm inclined to agree that everything that has been said so far. It's all kicking-off here on the BBC Radio this morning over the state visit for President Trump, which some commentators have considered as premature, putting The Queen in an 'embarrassing situation' etc.

Without commenting on the specifics of any of this, I would have thought that it was up to the Queen and no one else to decide whether, to what extent and for what reasons she might consider herself to be put in an "embarrassing situation" over the impending state visit either by Theresa May or by anyone else; the only questions might be whether Ms May announced that state visit without first consulting the Queen on it and whether she then insisted that it would not be cancelled having first discussed that with the Queen.

[vandermolen]

Without commenting on the specifics of any of this, I would have thought that it was up to the Queen and no one else to decide whether, to what extent and for what reasons she might consider herself to be put in an "embarrassing situation" over the impending state visit either by Theresa May or by anyone else; the only questions might be whether Ms May announced that state visit without first consulting the Queen on it and whether she then insisted that it would not be cancelled having first discussed that with the Queen.

Good point - I don't feel that strongly about it personally - many here have no problem with it.

[Turner]

1) An area of dilemma and conflicts these days, immediately after May´s visit, is Trump´s travel ban, which he claims was set up for security reasons. It also affects at least some people with dual citizenship, or even people just born in one of the blacklisted countries; for example it is estimated that the travel ban seems to immediately hit up to 57,000 people from Denmark too. If such numbers hold, it will be significantly more people as regards the UK. Apparently, there is now a lot of confusion whether UK citizens are excepted from the procedures or not - the UK foreign minister Boris Johnson has claimed they are, but this was then rejected by the US embassy in the UK. Johnson had already taken to Twitter to say: "We will protect the rights and freedoms of UK nationals home and abroad. Divisive and wrong to stigmatise because of nationality." He avoided mentioning the religious aspect, though.
(....)

Information by US authorities now seems to suggest that dual citizenship will not qualify for a travel ban, apparently concerning a lot of countries.

[ahinton]

Information by US authorities now seems to suggest that dual citizenship will not qualify for a travel ban, apparently concerning a lot of countries.

Indeed and this is just one of the "exceptions" that continue to rise to the surface...

[vandermolen]

Doesn't seem to be going very well at the moment. Any views?

[Turner]

"Donald Trump Could Run Afoul of U.K. Law for Retweeting British Fascists"

The demands for legal action (banning Trump) are certainly there, from some people.

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/29/president-united-states-spent-morning-retweeting-british-fascists/

[Todd]

"Donald Trump Could Run Afoul of U.K. Law for Retweeting British Fascists"

The demands for legal action (banning Trump) are certainly there, from some people.

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/29/president-united-states-spent-morning-retweeting-british-fascists/

This seems rather fanciful.  Perhaps an actual expert on UK law, particularly pertaining to diplomatic immunity and international relations, would be able to explain how the president, who is the chief diplomat of the United States, as well as the Head of State, has "veered into dangerous territory" in the UK.  The attempted analogy with someone like Geert Wilders seems pretty flimsy.  Given the UK's current status, and its apparent desire to craft a trade agreement with the US, this looks to me to be grandstanding and nothing more.

[kishnevi]

Doesn't seem to be going very well at the moment. Any views?

The ironic aspect is that the American right constantly complained about the (mostly imaginary) snubs Obama inflicted on the British...now of course they are cheering for Trump's snubs because he's snubbing the right sort of people.

[vandermolen]

The Royal wedding should patch things up.

[Que]

The British are discovering, like all of us, that the postwar world as we once knew it is coming to an end....

The parallel with the 1930's is striking.... Not that we are going another rise of fascism or another world war (well let's hope so...perhaps a war).
But the similar unravelling of current global power structures and alliances, traditional political and social values is uncanning...  And in several quarters the hardright has taken power.

No UK, there is no special relationship with the US anymore....

And the US government no longer stands for traditional Western values anymore. I wouldn't even call its leadership halfway decent and it is definitely not reliable, which is the basis of any international alliance. So you might not even consider yourselves allies anymore...

So, who are the UK's allies....now it is burning its bridges with the European Union? 

The UK has lost its course... In the bad times ahead, you'll need all the friends you can get. And it will not be the US.

Q