Author Topic: Bernard van Dieren  (Read 8467 times)

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cilgwyn

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2016, 04:07:57 AM »
My copy arrived this morning,from Nimbus!

cilgwyn

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2016, 12:39:26 AM »

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2016, 01:15:32 AM »
Looking forward to hearing the Chinese Symphony:

I'm afraid that this highly interesting article does not reflect well on the composer:

http://www.erikchisholm.com/menandmusic/dieren.php
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline ahinton

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2016, 02:34:18 AM »
Whilst it's good to see this fascinating work finally coming to light, there can be no doubt that van Dieren's work has suffered a fate worse than that of most composers whose music deserves to be heard. In my opinion, the best thing that could happen to achieve the desired restitution is for a really fine quartet (and there are so many of those these days) to issue a boxed set of the six quartets; I have no idea how Epstein formed his view of these or what he knew about them, for there were very few performances of any during the composer's lifetime (or indeed in Epstein's considerably longer one) and the Gabrieli Quartet's account of the first is not only the only one but the only time that even they played it AND it was done for a BBC broadcast only - they never performed it in a public concert. So which  ensemble should take up this challenge? Pacifica? Diotima? Danel?...

cilgwyn

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2016, 04:40:39 AM »
I've played the Lyrita recording a few times now and I must admit I do rather like it,for some reason. I'm not a musician and to my mind it does seem to meander a little;but I like the atmosphere of the piece. In fact I find it quite fascinating. It makes me think a little of late Scott (and Delius);which I also like;but more astringent than that. I particularly like the orchestral 'Interludio' and the way the soloists all come together in the the eighth section,'Quintetto e Coro'.The two shorter works are also well worth hearing imo. With so much of Scott's chamber and instrumental now recorded a new set of van Dieren's String Quartets would be welcome;and now would seem to be a good time!

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2016, 12:13:07 PM »
I've played the Lyrita recording a few times now and I must admit I do rather like it,for some reason. I'm not a musician and to my mind it does seem to meander a little;but I like the atmosphere of the piece. In fact I find it quite fascinating. It makes me think a little of late Scott (and Delius);which I also like;but more astringent than that. I particularly like the orchestral 'Interludio' and the way the soloists all come together in the the eighth section,'Quintetto e Coro'.The two shorter works are also well worth hearing imo. With so much of Scott's chamber and instrumental now recorded a new set of van Dieren's String Quartets would be welcome;and now would seem to be a good time!
Coincidentally I listened to the Chinese Symphony right through for the first time today and very much agree with your comments. It is a most strange work. The sum I think is greater than the parts. I don't think that it is especially derivative either although Zemlinsky and Cyril Scott came to mind as well as Mahler. It is a hypnotic, poetic and oddly magical work with a unique atmosphere - one of my CD discoveries of this year.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

cilgwyn

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2016, 03:33:09 PM »
I've just put it back on. It has an odd nocturnal sort of atmosphere. Yes,I think much more late Scott than Delius,with whom it has sometimes been compared. Although,I can hear him a bit in the chorus at times.
Zemlinsky,too ....even a bit of Mahler! But it also has,very much,it's own special sound world. I like it! Hypnotic,yes....and rather mysterious! It draws you into it's half-lit sound world and keeps you (me,anyway!) there. After listening to it a couple of times I strongly disagree with the "people who know" cited here,in this blog (scroll down to ninth paragraph,if you haven't seen this!) :

http://petergroves.blogspot.co.uk/2014_03_01_archive.html

Love the choice of artwork,too. It really catches the eye. Of course,being van Gogh,it would!

After so many listens I'm finding the two shorter pieces increasingly interesting. More Bernard van Dieren please,Lyrita (or somebody?!)  ;D

Offline Zeus

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2017, 06:49:22 PM »
Giving this Chinese Symphony a second, and more attentive listen.  Here are some thoughts:

First of all, this music is very impressionistic. I'm thinking Griffes, but a bit more quirky – maybe 90% Griffes and 10% Duke Bluebeard's Castle?

Second, lots of singing – at least some in every movment.

Third, there's nothing like a traditional structure of build-up to a big finale. Instead there are several musical parts or voices that come and go, and maybe mildly interact a little bit from time to time.

Fourth, everything is very relaxed. Singers and instruments are never competing for attention. They just happen. If anything, they try to stay in the background. Everything is so unobtrusive.

More than anything, listening to this symphony reminds me of watching ducks swimming around in a pond. Endlessly fascinating -- you don't go anywhere, but you don't mind.


Update: Listening to Griffes now and I must say Van Dieren sounds nothing like Griffes. Oh well - gotta keep the day job.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2017, 09:17:48 PM by Judge Fish »
"There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it." – Emmanuel Radnitzky (Man Ray)

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2017, 12:16:57 AM »
Giving this Chinese Symphony a second, and more attentive listen.  Here are some thoughts:

First of all, this music is very impressionistic. I'm thinking Griffes, but a bit more quirky – maybe 90% Griffes and 10% Duke Bluebeard's Castle?

Second, lots of singing – at least some in every movment.

Third, there's nothing like a traditional structure of build-up to a big finale. Instead there are several musical parts or voices that come and go, and maybe mildly interact a little bit from time to time.

Fourth, everything is very relaxed. Singers and instruments are never competing for attention. They just happen. If anything, they try to stay in the background. Everything is so unobtrusive.

More than anything, listening to this symphony reminds me of watching ducks swimming around in a pond. Endlessly fascinating -- you don't go anywhere, but you don't mind.


Update: Listening to Griffes now and I must say Van Dieren sounds nothing like Griffes. Oh well - gotta keep the day job.

On the contrary - what you write is interesting. I must listen to it again soon.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline The new erato

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2017, 12:48:24 AM »
Aftyer one short play: Colorful, and meandering. Will listen more, but so far no match for a similar work, Zemlinsky's Lyrical Symphony.

cilgwyn

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2017, 05:23:54 AM »
Another very enthusiastic review at Musicweb for the recent Bernard Van Dieren cd from Lyrita. More please!!

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Mar/Dieren_sy_SRCD357.htm


cilgwyn

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Re: Bernard van Dieren
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2017, 05:33:36 AM »
Giving this Chinese Symphony a second, and more attentive listen.  Here are some thoughts:

First of all, this music is very impressionistic. I'm thinking Griffes, but a bit more quirky – maybe 90% Griffes and 10% Duke Bluebeard's Castle?

Second, lots of singing – at least some in every movment.

Third, there's nothing like a traditional structure of build-up to a big finale. Instead there are several musical parts or voices that come and go, and maybe mildly interact a little bit from time to time.

Fourth, everything is very relaxed. Singers and instruments are never competing for attention. They just happen. If anything, they try to stay in the background. Everything is so unobtrusive.

More than anything, listening to this symphony reminds me of watching ducks swimming around in a pond. Endlessly fascinating -- you don't go anywhere, but you don't mind.


Update: Listening to Griffes now and I must say Van Dieren sounds nothing like Griffes. Oh well - gotta keep the day job.
Tend to agree with this post! I do agree that the meandering does go against it being anything other than a curio for adventurous collectors. Yet,as Judge fish observes,so succinctly  ;D "You don't go anywhere,but you don't mind" Well,I don't anyway!
Now,what shall I listen to next?!! ::) ;D