Alban Berg (1885-1935)

[karlhenning]

So is the Lyric Suite really completely serial?  And the source set is an all-interval set?

Sounds surprisingly (oh, I'll go ahead and say) lyrical . . . .

[snyprrr]

So is the Lyric Suite really completely serial?  And the source set is an all-interval set?

Sounds surprisingly (oh, I'll go ahead and say) lyrical . . . .

Isn't there a blatant G Major chord towards the beginning of the last piece? I thought someone around here was looking for some meaning there.

[karlhenning]

Well, the last piece for the quartet is Largo desolato;  the last piece for string orchestra is fourth of six for the quartet, Adagio appassionato.

As for meaning . . . I read that Adorno called the Lyrica Suite "a latent opera."

[Mirror Image]

Sounds surprisingly (oh, I'll go ahead and say) lyrical . . . .

That is exactly what I've been pointing out in my posts about Berg. Almost everything he composed had this deep Romantic lyricism to it. Even when Berg is at his most brutal he's still just so lyrically expressive.

[Luke]

Well, there's meaning alright, the whole hidden programme thing in Berg's typical cryptographic manner - is that what you meant?

[karlhenning]

Isn't there a blatant G Major chord towards the beginning of the last piece?

Triads (whether blatant or latent) are a component of the series.

According to Wikipedia (and I am guessing there are actual sources for these ; ) ::

The first row statement in the first number of the suite is:
F E C A G D A^b D^b E^b G^b B^b C^b

Note that E - C - A spells an a minor triad, and that E^b G^b B^b spells an e^b minor triad.  Note too that the second hexachord [A^b D^b E^b G^b B^b C^b] is a transposition (at the interval of a tritone) of the first hexachord [F E C A G D] in retrograde.

Something which Berg does in the course of the piece is, he takes the constituent tetrachords of the original row, [F E C A] + [G D A^b D^b] + [E^b G^b B^b C^b], and rotates the tetrachords. (The result is a different series, but the 'building blocks' of the two series are the same, so the two series are closely related.)  Thus:

[E^b G^b B^b C^b]  + [F E C A] + [G D A^b D^b]

This derived set, we see, begins with a minor triad.  If we invert that derived set, the opening triad becomes major . . . so we can certainly have a number of the Lyric Suite opening with a G major triad, and yet the piece can still be completely serial.

[Franco]

I read the Wikipedia article on Lyric Suite and discovered a book by George Perle that looks interesting.  Actually, two books, one an extended anaysis of the work, not as interesting, but another of a more general look at 20th C. music.  Very tempting. 

I've got his "Twelve-Tone Tonality" but haven't ever studied much of that book. 

Maybe now is the time.

[Luke]

Triads (whether blatant or latent) are a component of the series.

According to Wikipedia (and I am guessing there are actual sources for these ; ) ::

The first row statement in the first number of the suite is:
F E C A G D A^b D^b E^b G^b B^b C^b

Note that E - C - A spells an a minor triad, and that E^b G^b B^b spells an e^b minor triad.  Note too that the second hexachord [A^b D^b E^b G^b B^b C^b] is a transposition (at the interval of a tritone) of the first hexachord [F E C A G D] in retrograde.

Something which Berg does in the course of the piece is, he takes the constituent tetrachords of the original row, [F E C A] + [G D A^b D^b] + [E^b G^b B^b C^b], and rotates the tetrachords. (The result is a different series, but the 'building blocks' of the two series are the same, so the two series are closely related.)  Thus:

[E^b G^b B^b C^b] + [G D A^b D^b] + [F E C A]

This derived set, we see, begins with a minor triad.  If we invert that derived set, the opening traid becomes major . . . so we can certainly have a number of the Lyric Suite opening with a G major triad, and yet the piece can still be completely serial.

More obviously than that, and the sort of tangible, instrument-based thing that appealed to Berg the symbolist and Berg the musical dramatist*, note that the row separates white notes from black notes, which gives, among other things, those characteristic black-to-white sideslip harmonies in the first movement. Berg loved that kind of thing, it appealed to his symbolist-dramatist nature, as I said. In Lulu you get all those cluster chords in the piano, white and black, calling for vigour, muscle and visible athleticism from the pianist - and, fittingly and designedly, it is the row derived for the Acrobat that works that way IIRC - long time since I looked at this stuff, I might be misremembering.

*like all the open strings in the Violin Concerto, highlighted and prioritised in the row, for instance... in Bergian serialism all notes are not created equal! 

[karlhenning]

Yes, though C^b is a white note spelled like a black note : )

[not edward]

Is there any Berg serial work where the row (or rows) do not have some clear nod to conventional tonality? (Maybe his second setting of Schliesse mir die Augen beide?)

[karlhenning]

Yes, though C^b is a white note spelled like a black note : )

And its placement as the last element in the row emphasizes Luke's point . . . sort of ma fin est mon commencement.

[Luke]

Yes, though C^b is a white note spelled like a black note : )

But it's the end of the row, see - it connects back to the F at the beginning; the black notes are all congruent as notes 7-11. Even the bookending of the row with the B and the F is symbolic, of course - B=H: H-F = Hanna Fuchs Robettin, the woman (my great grea great aunt, or something similar, FWIW!) with whom Berg had the affair encrypted in the Lyric Suite in great detail.

[Luke]

And its placement as the last element in the row emphasizes Luke's point . . . sort of ma fin est mon commencement.

Yes, crossed posts - that's what I was saying, or part of it.

[karlhenning]

But it's the end of the row, see - it connects back to the F at the beginning; the black notes are all congruent as notes 7-11. Even the bookending of the row with the B and the F is sybolic, of course - B=H: H-F = Hanna Fuchs Robettin, the woman (my great grea great aunt, or something similar, FWIW!) with whom Berg had the affair encrypted in the Lyric Suite in great detail.

Yes, thanks. Illuminating and fascinating!

[karlhenning]

Is there any Berg serial work where the row (or rows) do not have some clear nod to conventional tonality? (Maybe his second setting of Schliesse mir die Augen beide?)

Didn't meant to ignore your post, Edward . . . to answer it is out of my depth. Perhaps Luke can help.

[karlhenning]

That is exactly what I've been pointing out in my posts about Berg. Almost everything he composed had this deep Romantic lyricism to it. Even when Berg is at his most brutal he's still just so lyrically expressive.

True.

[Luke]

It's a great question [Edward's, I mean]....and I don't know the answer OTTOMH! Der Wein has that D minor-ish row; the Chamber Concerto's row has a few mellifluous thirds and triads in it; the Violin Concerto's clearly is full of strong tonal pulls...but the quasi-row as used in the passacaglia scene of Wozzeck is fairly free of triads IIRC.

Ha - just pulled up this page: basic rows for the works of the Second Viennese composers. My recollections of the rows basically echoed here, I think.

[karlhenning]

You are Berg's ridiculously complicated Chamber Concerto.

I'm not (I haven't taken the quiz) . . . but on the lines of Luke's remarks on Liszt on his own piece, the complication is part and parcel of what the piece is about.

[karlhenning]

...but the quasi-row as used in the passacaglia scene of Wozzeck is fairly free of triads IIRC.

Ha - just pulled up this page: basic rows for the works of the Second Viennese composers. My recollections of the rows basically echoed here, I think.

Great resource, thanks!  And your recollection is confirmed . . . for Berg, relatively triad-free (an augmented and a diminished triad notwithstanding).

[karlhenning]

So Der Wein begins with an ascending harmonic minor scale?  Lemme cue that baby up . . . .