Alban Berg (1885-1935)

[Luke]

The Altenberg are really hard going I find. Amongst the least sensuous and beautiful of Berg's works. Certainly nothing like Lulu or Wozzeck... Presumably people rate them otherwise they wouldn't be famous? Are they considered to be important in his oeuvre?

Berg's oeuvre is so small and consistent, and each piece is so individual and fully realised that I've always felt that every work is considered important, because of the new things it brings to the table if nothing else. Certainly I 'grew up thinking' that the Altenberg Lieder were important; put another way, when I was taught about them in the context of Berg's complete oeuvre an inordinate amount of time was spent upon them in proportion to their length. Personally I don't find them in the least lacking in sensuality and beauty; to me they are among Berg's most refined and perfect works, a large orchestra engaged in feats of delicate complexity of the most spider-web strong construction, all in the service of these brief postcard settings

I suppose one of the issues I think they have in terms of 'beauty' is that they are so evanescent and brief that we don't have time to get used to each beautiful idea and texture before it is gone for ever; it is gone before we know it and are 'inside' it. There is a frustration in that which is part of the charm, as it is in Webern etc., but I guess it acts as an inhibiting factor too.

[TheGSMoeller]

The Altenberg are really hard going I find. Amongst the least sensuous and beautiful of Berg's works. Certainly nothing like Lulu or Wozzeck... Presumably people rate them otherwise they wouldn't be famous? Are they considered to be important in his oeuvre?

The texts by Altenberg are beautiful, making Berg's music all the more enthralling.



What is everyone's favorite recording of Wozzeck? I'm currently favoring Ingo Metzmacher/Hamburg State Philharmonic Orchestra with Boje Skovhus in the title roll. It's a live performance.

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[bhodges]

I only have two Wozzeck recordings ( ), and the Metzmacher is the one I play most often; I love what he does with the orchestral interludes, and the cast is very good. If Skovhus isn't the most...hm..."angst-ridden" title character, he still sings the role very well, and Denoke is an excellent Marie.

The other one is with Walter Berry (below) and Boulez. I'm not quite so sold on Berry's voice - he's good, just not to my taste - and the recording itself is a bit on the dry side, but I do like Boulez's no-nonsense approach to the score.

But the Metzmacher is excellent, and I love the live recording. The production - all in formal dress, apparently - looks fascinating, like an elegant dinner party gone awry.

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--Bruce

[TheGSMoeller]

I only have two Wozzeck recordings ( ), and the Metzmacher is the one I play most often; I love what he does with the orchestral interludes, and the cast is very good. If Skovhus isn't the most...hm..."angst-ridden" title character, he still sings the role very well, and Denoke is an excellent Marie.

But the Metzmacher is excellent, and I love the live recording. The production - all in formal dress, apparently - looks fascinating, like an elegant dinner party gone awry.

--Bruce

It's been a while since I've read the booklet, but I think I remember the staging to very minimalist, no props, that might be one reason why the performance is so thrilling.

[Guido]

Berg's oeuvre is so small and consistent, and each piece is so individual and fully realised that I've always felt that every work is considered important, because of the new things it brings to the table if nothing else. Certainly I 'grew up thinking' that the Altenberg Lieder were important; put another way, when I was taught about them in the context of Berg's complete oeuvre an inordinate amount of time was spent upon them in proportion to their length. Personally I don't find them in the least lacking in sensuality and beauty; to me they are among Berg's most refined and perfect works, a large orchestra engaged in feats of delicate complexity of the most spider-web strong construction, all in the service of these brief postcard settings

I suppose one of the issues I think they have in terms of 'beauty' is that they are so evanescent and brief that we don't have time to get used to each beautiful idea and texture before it is gone for ever; it is gone before we know it and are 'inside' it. There is a frustration in that which is part of the charm, as it is in Webern etc., but I guess it acts as an inhibiting factor too.

Thanks for this. I have to say, I haven't listened all that many times for the reasons I mentioned - they're nothing like as alluring to me as the voice/orch Berg that I have grown accustomed to from Marie's music in Wozzeck (some strange admixture of Strauss and Ives), Lulu, and of course the ravishing 7 early songs (Strauss made poetic, Korngold made nutritious). Will persevere though!

[mjwal]

>>The Altenberg are really hard going I find. Amongst the least sensuous and beautiful of Berg's works. Certainly nothing like Lulu or Wozzeck... Presumably people rate them otherwise they wouldn't be famous? Are they considered to be important in his oeuvre?<<
The Altenberg Lieder have always been among my most loved vocal works, Guido. They prefigure the Lulu sound-feeling but are complete in themselves. I still love the Boulez/BBCSO/Lukomska recording most of those I have - the Abbado/Price version (better sounding on LP than CD) is perfectly performed but lacking in that peculiar Bergian poignancy to my ears, especially in the voice, pure but not so expressive of the meaning of the words. The Gielen/Orsanic recording is also very good and a snip if you can find it.
Somewhere in the Craft/Stravinsky dialogues Igor raves about these, just as he does about Dichterliebe, which you wouldn't automatically expect.

[Josquin des Prez]

Rumor has it Camille Saint-Saens stood up during the opening bassoon solo and exclaimed "That is not a bassoon, that is a buffoon!"

Did he say it in french or in english?

[Leo K.]

Claudio Abbado on Harmonia Mundi: can you believe that? With Isabelle Faust! Due next month: if it were a book, it'd be called a publishing event! Berg and Beethoven is what they are giving us. Last Abbado recording of the Berg Concerto was with Isaac Stern; he also did the Beethoven Concerto with Stern, in Paris: but that was never released on CD; not even on LP. Ain't that a shame (when in Paris do as the Texans do, in case you were wondering about the "ain't")?  Be it as it may, well worth the long line in front of your neighborhood CD store, if your neighborhood still has a CD store, this new Berg/Beethoven release, more certainly so than Michael Jordan sneakers.

Wow! Thanks for the heads up! I can't wait!

[Lisztianwagner]

I listened to Wozzeck some days ago, with Carlos Kleiber & Bavarian State Orchestra.....what a thrilling work it was, very beautiful, it quite impressed me; it was the first time that I listened to an opera composed in atonal style!
All the opera is pervaded by a dramatic atmosphere the atonality amplifies a lot, in a very expressive way, with the use of strong dissonances and sudden timbric variations, absolutely powerfully emotional and brilliant. I really liked also Berg's use of leitmotifs to introduce the characters in the scene and to express their feelings and their thought processes.
Kleiber's performance was outstanding, wonderfully played by the orchestra; I had no doubt about it though, Kleiber and Wozzeck is a winning combination.

[TheGSMoeller]

I listened to Wozzeck some days ago, with Carlos Kleiber & Bavarian State Orchestra.....what a thrilling work it was, very beautiful, it quite impressed me; it was the first time that I listened to an opera composed in atonal style!
All the opera is pervaded by a dramatic atmosphere the atonality amplifies a lot, in a very expressive way, with the use of strong dissonances and sudden timbric variations, absolutely powerfully emotional and brilliant. I really liked also Berg's use of leitmotifs to introduce the characters in the scene and to express their feelings and their thought processes.
Kleiber's performance was outstanding, wonderfully played by the orchestra; I had no doubt about it though, Kleiber and Wozzeck is a winning combination.

A great piece, no doubt. Wonderful to hear your reaction.

I attended The Dallas Opera's performance of Wozzeck, must have been 10 years ago maybe less, the production created a semi-futuristic surreal/biker gang setting. In Act 1 when Wozzeck visits the Doctor, the tenor portraying the title character, bent over a table, and the Doctor blatantly put on rubber gloves and preceded to "check" Wozzeck. The tenor even changed his tone and made some body movements both suggesting the Doctor's actions, this prompted a good hand-full of the audience members to walk out, some had already walked out when they realized the tonal or, atonal structure of the composition, and others left about halfway. It was quite entertaining to watch those leaving. Out of the dozen or so Operas I've attended, it certainly was one of the best.

I am not familiar with the Kleiber recording, I may have to change that. 

[Lisztianwagner]

A great piece, no doubt. Wonderful to hear your reaction.

I attended The Dallas Opera's performance of Wozzeck, must have been 10 years ago maybe less, the production created a semi-futuristic surreal/biker gang setting. In Act 1 when Wozzeck visits the Doctor, the tenor portraying the title character, bent over a table, and the Doctor blatantly put on rubber gloves and preceded to "check" Wozzeck. The tenor even changed his tone and made some body movements both suggesting the Doctor's actions, this prompted a good hand-full of the audience members to walk out, some had already walked out when they realized the tonal or, atonal structure of the composition, and others left about halfway. It was quite entertaining to watch those leaving. Out of the dozen or so Operas I've attended, it certainly was one of the best.

I am not familiar with the Kleiber recording, I may have to change that. 

Thank you, Greg

Really, a semi-futuristic surreal/biker gang? What a curious setting; I agree about the freedom of interpretation, but I'm always a little suspicious about modern sceneries. Maybe I'm too influenced by Wagner's concepts.
I can't believe that some people left the performance for those reasons....actors' movements, atonal structure....why buying the ticket then?!

Haha, Kleiber's version is definitely worth listening to, no doubt! Kleiber's name is tied tightly to this opera, we mustn't forget that Carlos' father, Erich, conducted the premiere of Wozzeck in 1925.

[TheGSMoeller]

Thank you, Greg

Really, a semi-futuristic surreal/biker gang? What a curious setting; I agree about the freedom of interpretation, but I'm always a little suspicious about modern sceneries. Maybe I'm too influenced by Wagner's concepts.
I can't believe that some people left the performance for those reasons....actors' movements, atonal structure....why buying the ticket then?!

Haha, Kleiber's version is definitely worth listening to, no doubt! Kleiber's name is tied tightly to this opera, we mustn't forget that Carlos' father, Erich, conducted the premiere of Wozzeck in 1925.

Thanks for the bit of history, never knew about that the Kleibers. 

[mjwal]

FYI, there is a recording by Erich Kleiber (I persist in finding him more interesting than his much-hyped son) of the 3 orchestral fragments from Wozzeck. Essential listening - from the horse's mouth, as it were, though recorded some time in the 50s.

[Mirror Image]

ATTENTION BERG FANS!!!
[asin]B007WB5DOI[/asin]

Contains Berg's Lulu Suite and Der Wein. Boulez with the Vienna Philharmonic. Need I say more?

[TheGSMoeller]

ATTENTION BERG FANS!!!
[asin]B007WB5DOI[/asin]

Contains Berg's Lulu Suite and Der Wein. Boulez with the Vienna Philharmonic. Need I say more?

Very cool, thanks, John!

[Lisztianwagner]

ATTENTION BERG FANS!!!
[asin]B007WB5DOI[/asin]

Contains Berg's Lulu Suite and Der Wein. Boulez with the Vienna Philharmonic. Need I say more?

How brilliant!

[Mirror Image]

How brilliant!

Yes, I'll be buying this one, Ilaria. How could I resist?

[Karl Henning]

Not that the HvK recording is at all bad, but I have to give Abbado the nod on the Op.6 pieces.

[TheGSMoeller]

Not that the HvK recording is at all bad, but I have to give Abbado the nod on the Op.6 pieces.

Haven't heard HvK yet, but Abbado is very good. Karl, have you heard Levine/Met Orchestra's Berg disc on Sony? Wozzeck fragments with Fleming, Lulu Suite and Op.6 pieces. Still probably my favorite Berg orchestral disc.

[Karl Henning]

I've not heard it, Greg; but I know that Jimmy had a knack for that neck of the lit.