What Opera Are You Listening to Now?

[Papy Oli]

Had a sampling shoot-out on La Traviata on various tracks of Act I

    

The old sound of the Callas recording is too distracting for me at this early stage. Her voice is rubbing me the wrong way too, sadly. As I have learnt going through Bach's Cantatas, I will not write any voice off yet. I just need to find an entry point that works for me later on or just gaining more familiarity.

It is a close call between Moffo and Cotrubas. I like both voices, even if Moffo was a tiny bit shrill at times. Moffo's recording sounded more immediate and lively but I have found myself drawn in into the Cotrubas and wallowing into the music and singing.

Kleiber/Cotrubas makes the cut for a first recording to spend time with. More importantly, it sounds like like a very appealing work. Look forward to dive in properly.

[JBS]

Myto releases can often leave a lot to be desired sound wise. The release Tsaraslondon had in mind was, I'm pretty sure, this one

[Tsaraslondon]

Myto releases can often leave a lot to be desired sound wise. The release Tsaraslondon had in mind was, I'm pretty sure, this one

Actually the Myto transfer is better than the ica one. I don't know what they did, but they eliminated a bit of operatic history. During the orchestral prelude you can usually make out Callas softly singing a couple of notes as she warms up, but these notes are completely absent from the ica version and the sound in general is a bit dull. Myto is absolutely fine.

[Tsaraslondon]

For Traviata, can I suggest Pavarotti & Sutherland? Both pretty much at their peaks when the recording took place. I think a Pavarotti high C is hard to beat, even if he sustains it past anything the score suggests!

As I said, you'll get a lots of different recommendations. I'm afraid I find Sutherland completely unconvincing as Violetta. Callas and Cotrubas are almost unbearably moving, but Sutherland doesn't move me one bit, I'm afraid.

Gheorghiu is an excellent Violetta too, but I'm not too fond of Solti's conducting, nor of her Alfredo and Germont.

[Papy Oli]

Actually the Myto transfer is better than the ica one. I don't know what they did, but they eliminated a bit of operatic history. During the orchestral prelude you can usually make out Callas softly singing a couple of notes as she warms up, but these notes are completely absent from the ica version and the sound in general is a bit dull. Myto is absolutely fine.

Ha! I heard that soft singing at the start, I did wonder why that was there! 

(and thanks Jeffrey for mentioning that release too)

For Traviata, can I suggest Pavarotti & Sutherland? Both pretty much at their peaks when the recording took place. I think a Pavarotti high C is hard to beat, even if he sustains it past anything the score suggests!

You certainly can. I'll sample it. Thank you.

[Tsaraslondon]

Had a sampling shoot-out on La Traviata on various tracks of Act I

    

The old sound of the Callas recording is too distracting for me at this early stage. Her voice is rubbing me the wrong way too, sadly. As I have learnt going through Bach's Cantatas, I will not write any voice off yet. I just need to find an entry point that works for me later on or just gaining more familiarity.

It is a close call between Moffo and Cotrubas. I like both voices, even if Moffo was a tiny bit shrill at times. Moffo's recording sounded more immediate and lively but I have found myself drawn in into the Cotrubas and wallowing into the music and singing.

Kleiber/Cotrubas makes the cut for a first recording to spend time with. More importantly, it sounds like like a very appealing work. Look forward to dive in properly.

Personally I find Moffo rather skates over the role's deeper meaning and I much prefer Cotrubas.

Callas can be an acquired taste, it is true, but once acquired, she can become almost a sickness. Even those who don't like her voice will agree that she was one of the greatest musicians of the twentieth century. Not only does she accurately execute all the markings in the score, she understands the point of them, and you can't say that about many singers. Violetta was one of her greatest roles, by the way, and the one she sang more often than any other than Norma. I find the Covent Garden performance absolutely devastating in its truthfulness. Incidentally, to really appreciate Callas you really have to listen to her in a complete role, preferably with the libretto before you, for she will pay as much attention to a line of recitative as she does to a whole aria. A role was all of one piece for her.

[Tsaraslondon]

PS. Here's my detailed review of the Callas Covent Garden performance.

http://tsaraslondon.com/2017/07/17/callass-covent-garden-traviata/

[JBS]

Actually the Myto transfer is better than the ica one. I don't know what they did, but they eliminated a bit of operatic history. During the orchestral prelude you can usually make out Callas softly singing a couple of notes as she warms up, but these notes are completely absent from the ica version and the sound in general is a bit dull. Myto is absolutely fine.

Lord! My memory had you saying the opposite. Thanks for the correction.

Meanwhile I'm spending the afternoon with this

[Tsaraslondon]

I understand the criticism of Sutherland, though I don't agree with it, personally, because it's Traviata. I don't expect the soprano to 'move me' or 'convince me' viscerally as if we're dealing with a Strindberg play. It's Verdi (and it's opera, possibly the least-plausible of art-forms!). I expect my Verdi heroines to sound like Verdi. Sutherland does, I think.

Ah, that's where we differ. I do expect my Verdi heroines to move me and convince me, especially in certain of his operas, La Traviata being a case in point. I have a feeling Verdi did too. I suppose opera is, as you say, the least plausible of art forms (though I don't see it as being any less plausible than ballet) but I don't see why it shouldn't move the listener viscerally, at least as much as any play by Strindberg, to use your example. In fact, as its medium is music, I often find it more moving than straight theatre and usually Verdi's Otello  moves me more than Shakespeare's play. If it doesn't, then I think the performers aren't doing their job.

[Papy Oli]

For Traviata, can I suggest Pavarotti & Sutherland? Both pretty much at their peaks when the recording took place. I think a Pavarotti high C is hard to beat, even if he sustains it past anything the score suggests!

Sampling this one this morning. Not too bad, even if Sutherland's voice takes me a bit of getting used to. I'll stick to Contrubas for my initial full exploration version for now but will keep this one up my sleeve for future reference. Pavarotti is indeed not too shabby 

[Papy Oli]

Personally I find Moffo rather skates over the role's deeper meaning and I much prefer Cotrubas.

Callas can be an acquired taste, it is true, but once acquired, she can become almost a sickness. Even those who don't like her voice will agree that she was one of the greatest musicians of the twentieth century. Not only does she accurately execute all the markings in the score, she understands the point of them, and you can't say that about many singers. Violetta was one of her greatest roles, by the way, and the one she sang more often than any other than Norma. I find the Covent Garden performance absolutely devastating in its truthfulness. Incidentally, to really appreciate Callas you really have to listen to her in a complete role, preferably with the libretto before you, for she will pay as much attention to a line of recitative as she does to a whole aria. A role was all of one piece for her.

Thank you for this perspective. I'll keep trying Callas anyway for any other future operas where her version comes recommended.

Case in point, I sampled her in Barbiere Di Siviglia last night (Galliera, Gobbi, Alva) and the impression was more positive. This is a close call for which version to pick between this one, Abbado/Domingo/Battle and Gui/Los Angeles/Alva/Cava.  Gui and Galliera have the edge for now.

PS. Here's my detailed review of the Callas Covent Garden performance.

http://tsaraslondon.com/2017/07/17/callass-covent-garden-traviata/

Thank you, I'll read that later today.

[Tsaraslondon]

Sampling this one this morning. Not too bad, even if Sutherland's voice takes me a bit of getting used to. I'll stick to Contrubas for my initial full exploration version for now but will keep this one up my sleeve for future reference. Pavarotti is indeed not too shabby 

The Kleiber set with Cotrubas is somethig of a reference recording, so you can't really go wrong. I was actually fortunate enough to see Cotrubas as Violetta many years ago now. She was truly wonderful.

[Tsaraslondon]

Thank you for this perspective. I'll keep trying Callas anyway for any other future operas where her version comes recommended.

Case in point, I sampled her in Barbiere Di Siviglia last night (Galliera, Gobbi, Alva) and the impression was more positive. This is a close call for which version to pick between this one, Abbado/Domingo/Battle and Gui/Los Angeles/Alva/Cava.  Gui and Galliera have the edge for now.

There is another Abbado version, which is probably more recommendable than the one with Domingo as Figaro. I've never quite taken to Domingo as a baritone, I'm afraid. The earlier Abbado has Hermann Prey, Teresa Berganza and Luigi Alva again. If I remember correctly, it's also complete, which isn't true of Gui and Galliera, though I find both much more fun.

[Papy Oli]

There is another Abbado version, which is probably more recommendable than the one with Domingo as Figaro. I've never quite taken to Domingo as a baritone, I'm afraid. The earlier Abbado has Hermann Prey, Teresa Berganza and Luigi Alva again. If I remember correctly, it's also complete, which isn't true of Gui and Galliera, though I find both much more fun.

This one ? I had tried that version too but found it a bit underwhelming.


I have seen some mentions of Domingo switching from Tenor to Baritone in other threads and comments like yours. Around what time did that happen? The reason I am asking is that Idagio still list him as a Tenor on the Abbado recording in question (unless they list Domingo as a Tenor by default - just checked Presto and they list him as a Tenor as well on that recording). To be honest, if I like a voice, its category won't worry me to me much anyway.

[Tsaraslondon]

This one ? I had tried that version too but found it a bit underwhelming.


I have seen some mentions of Domingo switching from Tenor to Baritone in other threads and comments like yours. Around what time did that happen? The reason I am asking is that Idagio still list him as a Tenor on the Abbado recording in question (unless they list Domingo as a Tenor by default - just checked Presto and they list him as a Tenor as well on that recording). To be honest, if I like a voice, its category won't worry me to me much anyway.

Yes that's the one. I confess I find it a bit dull too. I much prefer Gui and Galliera. For a more modern recording, I prefer the Marriner, which is also uncut and has a strong cast in Thomas Allen, Agnes Baltsa and Francico Araiza.

I think he still considered himself a tenor, but started dipping his toes into baritone repertoire with this Barbiere. Figaro is after all quite a high baritone role. I have a feeling that, as a soprano, Battle sings in higher keys too, whereas both De Los Angeles and Callas sing Rosina in the original mezzo keys, though they too are both sopranos.

[Tsaraslondon]

Well, it's music, so I expect all of it to move me.
I was more taking issue with the concept of a particular soprano being 'convincing' in an art form where dragons, dwarves, gods, Chinese emperors and US Naval Captains are often found wandering about the stage! So long as the notes come out as the composer intended, that's about as much as I can reasonably expect, I think.

La Traviata is slighty different though. It is based on Alexandre Dumas's Lady of the Camelias and the central character was based on the true life courtesan Marie DuPlessis. In fact, audiences in Verdi's day at first found it difficult to accept on the operatic stage a contemporary tale in modern dress and the premiere was something of a flop, not just because of the modern setting, but because the rather plump soprano was an unconvincing consumptive. When it was produced again, they changed the date to the time of Louis XIV and cast a more convincing soprano and the opera was a huge success. After that it reverted to the correct setting with no problem.

In fact quite a few operas deal with non-mythical people and beasts, particularly those by Verdi. He may have set a few historic dramas, but he never wrote about dragons, dwarves, gods or Chinese emperors.

[Roasted Swan]

Ah, that's where we differ. I do expect my Verdi heroines to move me and convince me, especially in certain of his operas, La Traviata being a case in point. I have a feeling Verdi did too. I suppose opera is, as you say, the least plausible of art forms (though I don't see it as being any less plausible than ballet) but I don't see why it shouldn't move the listener viscerally, at least as much as any play by Strindberg, to use your example. In fact, as its medium is music, I often find it more moving than straight theatre and usually Verdi's Otello  moves me more than Shakespeare's play. If it doesn't, then I think the performers aren't doing their job.

I'm with you 100% on this.  The whole point of any theatrical art form and the performers who take part in it - from Shakespeare's "Wooden O" through to the most modern production - is to make the audience suspend their disbelief.  Rationally we know they are not who they say they are; Kings/Dragons/dying from TB - but a great performance makes you believe they are.  I'm not sure I believe Absolutely Baching is completely OK with any singer singing say Peter Grimes as long as they just hit the notes!  The great/amazing thing about theatre/ballet/opera is the recreation/reimagining of the 'dead' text in the 'living' performance.

[Papy Oli]

More fruitful sampling today.

Narrowed La Boheme for now down to Karajan/Pavarotti/Freni and Solti/Caballe/Milnes/Domingo (Votto and Beecham are put away for another time)

The choice was quite harder for Nozze De figaro: Gardiner and Giulini came out top to my ears but Davis (in this case, RCA above Philips) and Solti weren't really far behind either. I enjoyed the combination of singers in all of them. Also tried Jacobs and Currentzis but they weren't my cup of tea.

Onwards - Sampling Tosca. 

This is fun

[Papy Oli]

I ended up narrowing Toscadown to Karajan/Price and Davis/Caballe/Carreras. My opera streaming list for our holiday ahead is looking very exciting.

Please may I ask for a few more recommendations:

Q5 - Verdi / Il Trovatore: from the mentions in threads, I already line up Mehta/Price/Domingo, Karajan/Callas/Di Stefano, Giulini/Domingo/Plowright. Any other please ?

Q6 - Mozart - Don Giovanni : Lined up are Abbado/Keenlyside/Salminen and Giulini/Waechter/Schwarzkopf. What else please ?

Q7 - Strauss - Der Rosenkavalier : Which recordings beside Karajan/Schwarzkopf/Edelmann/Ludwig ?

Q8 - Puccini - Madama Butterfly ?

Thank you in advance 

[Tsaraslondon]

I love this opera and this is a very fine performance, even if Grigorian doesn't quite erase memories of Nelepp. The opera is about obsession and addiction and Tchaikovsky's score, which is often overtly dramatic, refelects that. I love it at least as much as Eugene Onegin.