Author Topic: Brexit Negotiations.  (Read 138517 times)

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Offline Irons

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1360 on: September 15, 2020, 06:57:22 AM »




The cause of that is IMO due to a democratic vote that was based on wrong assumptions. Which resulted in a political process with a strategy that was out of touch with reality. Just look at how May struggled to retain all the benefits of being part of the internal market, while wanting to leave it. I am frankly surprised about the lack of knowledge in the UK among public and politicans alike about the economic and political mechanisms of the EU.



Q

You talk a lot of sense but I read the above with open-mouthed astonishment. Who are you, Barnier or whoever to question the ability of the British public to understand an issue as well as you can? Sanctimonious at it's most blatant. I'm done! Until the next twist in the torturous path called Brexit.  :o
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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1361 on: September 15, 2020, 07:23:48 AM »
You talk a lot of sense but I read the above with open-mouthed astonishment. Who are you, Barnier or whoever to question the ability of the British public to understand an issue as well as you can? Sanctimonious at it's most blatant. I'm done! Until the next twist in the torturous path called Brexit.  :o

If you're right then generally speaking UK voters and polictians knew exactly what they were getting into (or out of).

Nothing I've read in the run up to the referendum and thereafter indicates anything that comes close. On the contray.
Yes, there are actually a lot of superb experts on the EU in the UK, but they were conveniently ignored and dismissed as "saboteurs" and "friends of the EU". Along with the House of Lords, the Supreme Court and senior diplomats and other senior civil servants. Who needs experts?

Anyway, it is all water under the bridge - our little post mortem of Brexit.
Brexit will soon be over, the economic and political fall out will follow.

Q
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 09:10:12 PM by Que »

Offline Madiel

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1362 on: September 15, 2020, 01:04:05 PM »
We most certainly have not.

A little bit of Google and Wikipedia will tell you that you certainly have, and the fact that you don’t even know it (and in fact vehemently DENY it) speaks volumes as to how this process has been handled.

There’s still talk about whether to have “no deal Brexit” at the end of the year, when you’ve already had the Brexit part, and the question is whether you’ll have a deal with the EU or tear up the deal you already have.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2020, 01:06:43 PM by Madiel »
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Offline Herman

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1363 on: September 17, 2020, 12:00:06 AM »
The "EU" which the UK has not left, according to some Britons, probably is not the EU as a real thing, but rather a state of mind, a frustrating thing in which you have to cooperate and communicate instead of just blissfully toss one's toys against the wall.

The EU is, in short, being a responsible adult, and that is what Brexit appears to be about.

Having one's cake and eat it too.

Master of one's domain.

Without consequences, obviously.

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1364 on: September 19, 2020, 11:37:28 PM »
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 12:42:53 AM by Que »

Offline Todd

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1365 on: September 20, 2020, 04:39:55 AM »
Wow, things are serious.  Mrs George Clooney did something: Brexit: Amal Clooney quits government envoy role over law break plan
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1366 on: September 20, 2020, 06:34:12 AM »
You do realise she was a prominent international lawyer before she was ever a Clooney? Treating her as nothing more than an appendage to her husband is rank sexism.
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Offline Todd

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1367 on: September 20, 2020, 06:54:54 AM »
Good stuff.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General

Offline Dowder

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1368 on: September 20, 2020, 07:00:16 AM »
She reminds me of Huma, the former Mrs Weiner.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Herman

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1369 on: September 20, 2020, 10:50:10 AM »
You do realise she was a prominent international lawyer before she was ever a Clooney? Treating her as nothing more than an appendage to her husband is rank sexism.

What do you expect from a troll?

Offline Madiel

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1370 on: September 20, 2020, 01:38:24 PM »
What do you expect from a troll?

Yes, I know. I was already tired and cranky and so I fed it after midnight.
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Offline accmacmus

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1371 on: September 27, 2020, 02:25:48 PM »
Would it be a proper negotiating round (9th) without yours truly announcing it here?


No Twitter statements from neither Barnier (EU negotiator) nor Frost (UK negotiator).

« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 02:28:19 PM by accmacmus »

Offline accmacmus

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1372 on: October 01, 2020, 02:46:19 AM »
Statement from the EU Head of Commission, Ursula von der Leyen:

Good morning,
    as you know we have invited our British friends to remove the problematic parts of their draft Internal Market Bill by the end of September. This draft bill is — by its very nature — a breach of the obligation of good faith laid down in the Withdrawal Agreement. Moreover, if adopted as is, it will be in full contradiction to the Protocol of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
The deadline lapsed yesterday, the problematic provisions have not been removed, therefore this morning the commission has decided to send a letter of formal notice to the UK Government. This is the first step in an Infringement Procedure. The letter invites the UK Government to send its observation within a month.
And beside this, the Commission will continue to work hard to the full and timely implementation of the withdrawal agreement. We stand by our commitment. Thank you.


https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1311592855014694913

Reply by UK Government spokesman:

We will respond to the letter in due course. We have clearly set out our reasons for introducing the measures related to the Northern Ireland Protocol. We need to create a legal safety net to protect the integrity of the UK’s internal market, ensure ministers can always deliver on their obligations to Northern Ireland and protect the gains from the peace process.

Offline Madiel

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1373 on: October 01, 2020, 03:18:12 AM »
Honestly, it seems more and more clear that parts of the UK government didn’t understand what they agreed to.

And didn’t grapple with the inevitable contradictions from simultaneously trying to separate the UK from the EU and trying to keep the 2 parts of Ireland together as per the Good Friday Agreements.

Sure, the union is potentially under threat. It’s under threat because an English movement for Brexit was able to completely steamroll the wants and needs of other parts of the UK. And it’s a mess.
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Offline Que

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Offline Herman

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1375 on: October 07, 2020, 12:04:23 PM »
Honestly, it seems more and more clear that parts of the UK government didn’t understand what they agreed to.


Part of the confusion may be Johnson et al had not expected the British would be so stupid as to give Brexit a majority vote.

Same as with Trump, who looked really stupefied on election night 2016. He had not seriously meant to become president.

You hear this, too, in Johnson saying a PM's pay is insufficient to feed and educatie all of his children. He hadn't given it any thought.

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1376 on: October 17, 2020, 11:49:35 PM »
Boris Johnson tells UK: prepare for a no-deal Brexit

The more Johnson tells the UK that there will be no deal and the EU that the negotiations are over, the more it is apparent that he wants and needs a deal.

And there will be a deal... IMO.

The French resistance to a compromise on fisheries will be paid off with a preferential treatment of existing fishing rights in the Channel. The Dutch and Danish, who fish in other UK waters, will bleed for it. As in any fight, the big boys will get what they want...

On the debate on the "level playing field" (competition on equal terms), the UK will have to move.... The EU will never agree to free trade other than on an guaranteed equal footing.

Q

Offline Madiel

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1377 on: October 18, 2020, 02:11:05 AM »
Part of the confusion may be Johnson et al had not expected the British would be so stupid as to give Brexit a majority vote.

They had plenty of time after that.

And then derailed Theresa May. Who was given the traditional female job in politics of getting the leadership when none of the men wanted to take the poison.
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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1378 on: October 21, 2020, 12:49:08 PM »
The endgame has finally begun:

UK, EU hint at Brexit talks breakthrough (Politico)

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit Negotiations.
« Reply #1379 on: October 24, 2020, 01:45:10 AM »
With the Brexit walkout and sulk over, is the UK on the home straight for a deal?

"After a week of theatrics, the gaps are still significant and the deal at the end remains thin"

Boris is going to do a deal... reluctantly, but he'll have to in order to avoid an economic crash.

But I think the important message here is that under the deal that is now being negotiated, the UK will still leave the internal market and is predicted to face a 3,5% decline in GDP over ten years as a consequence.

Q