Brexit

[MusicTurner]

Yes, obviously your Dutch fee seems more reasonable; ours is way beyond the actual cost of handling my VAT payment. Sadly, I can't google an alternative local customs authority here 

[steve ridgway]

I'm done with UK-based Presto from now on, sadly.

What are the download costs like? FLAC format is CD quality.

[MusicTurner]

What are the download costs like? FLAC format is CD quality.

I don't do downloads at all any more, but Presto's prices for example can vary between countries.

[steve ridgway]

I tried to order the book The Cambridge History of 19th Century Music from Amazon UK for my father's birthday last month and what the website showed as "Sold and supplied by Amazon" with next day delivery turned out to be some third party that after three days hadn't even sent an estimated delivery date. As they had an AG company name I suspected they were in Europe so cancelled and ordered a slightly more expensive copy from a UK seller. At least he received it with no extra charges even if it was a week late. I'll watch out for that in future.

[Iota]

Don't lose sight of the fact, because I think it is a fact, that many many British people were seriously disaffected with the status  quo, they felt disenfranchised and unrepresented, that the country was run by people who weren't interested in their welfare, by corrupt people who were feathering their own nest while they, the people, were living in a regime of austerity.

Agree completely. That was one of the big things that the referendum vote made clear. It was a chance for people who normally felt they had absolutely no say in what happened to suddenly make their voices heard, and many Remainers (including myself) said if one good thing was to come out of this it would be that the ever-widening gap between the haves and have-nots could finally be properly addressed. It of course hasn't been, but -

... also don't forget that twelve months ago it looked as though they had done the right thing in a way: without Brexit would we have had a government which talked about levelling up?

Then Covid came, but Covid is getting under control. Let's see if any levelling up starts to happen over the next couple of years. I own property in Manchester, when I drive through, for example, Oldham, I am horrified by the wasteland, the desolation and the despair. I'm not surprised that the residents needed to make their feelings known loud and clear.

What I'm saying is, there is a possibility that Brexit will, indirectly, result in a UK which is fairer. The country may well be poorer,  but the wealth may be distributed better. We shall see, but if they don't we could have turbulent times ahead - COVID has exacerbated the inequalities.

Miles Platting, near Oldham, Manchester. My heart sinks whenever I drive through it. Normally there is some litter stuck to the metal fence.

- they are making gestures of levelling up, which I'm sure almost everybody would support. Rishi Sunak announced a Towns Funds scheme in yesterday's Budget, which will mean £1bn for 45 towns, though heavily skewed towards the ones that voted Tory, which has provoked criticism not just from Starmer. But fair enough, it's a start.
Though the idea that this government will do much willingly to help the underclass, or that the reason the underclass are disenfranchised in the first place had anything substantial to do with our membership the EU, does not to me reflect any kind of reality.

[Que]

I think we might be heading for a crisis: Ulster loyalists are distancing themselves from the Good Friday Agreement, the UK government is taking unilateral actions on the NI Protocol and in response the European Parliament is delaying the ratification of the bilateral trade agreement.

More on prof. Chris Grey's "Brexit and Beyond":

Brexit unhinged

[Que]

The predictions of long lines of trucks along the roads to Dover haven't come true.
This is caused by goods destined for the Irish Republic being rerouted and... ..

Exports to EU plunge by 40% in first month since Brexit

Imports have gone down less, namely 28%. Which means an increase in the trade deficit with the EU.

This is the data from January. Brexiteers could claim that things will improve.
They might if trade adjusts, but the situation also could worsen even further when various "grace periods" expire in the coming months.

Q

[Que]

Hopefully this will bring to end the post-Brexit vaccine spat between the UK and the EU...

The deal comes at the moment on which the UK needs extra supplies of AZ from existing and new production lines located in the EU, to ensure a timely 2nd shot for those already vaccinated in the UK. The UK decided to not keep the 2nd dose aside like some other countries and vaccinated as many of its citizens as possible.

According to EU sources 21 million doses have been exported to the UK sofar. Over the past few weeks the EU has been playing hard ball by treathening with export bans.

Britain nearing vaccine deal with European Union: The Times (Reuters)
Britain is close to striking a vaccine deal with the European Union as soon as this weekend that will remove the threat of the bloc cutting off supplies, The Times reported on Saturday.

Under the agreement the EU will remove its threat to ban the export of Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines to Britain, it added.
In return, the UK government will agree to forgo some long-term supplies of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine that had been due to be exported from Holland, the newspaper reported.

On Friday, the European Medicines Agency approved Halix production site in the Netherlands that makes the AstraZeneca vaccine and a facility in Marburg in Germany producing BioNTech/Pfizer shots.

The EU's clearing of the vaccine site comes as the union is banking on them to boost deliveries in the second quarter and accelerate the slow pace of inoculations in the bloc.

Europe's troubled vaccine rollout has led to a quarrel with Britain, which has imported 21 million doses made in the EU, according to an EU official. Britain says it did a better job negotiating with manufacturers and arranging supply chains.

The EU says that Britain should share more, notably to help make up the shortfall in contracted deliveries of AstraZeneca shots.

Brussels and London sought to cool tensions on Wednesday, declaring they were working "to create a win-win situation and expand vaccine supply for all our citizens".

The UK government, Pfizer-BioNTech, and AstraZeneca were not immediately available for comment after office hours.

[Que]

Brexit: European Parliament backs UK trade deal


This final chord in the Brexit saga went largely unnoticed. But Brexit is finally done....kind of...

[steve ridgway]

Yeah, adjustments are still going on but we're past all that "today is a critical day in Parliament" stuff that went on for month after month.

[Que]

Yeah, adjustments are still going on but we're past all that "today is a critical day in Parliament" stuff that went on for month after month.

Considering the strains on the UK-EU relationship there were some concerns the European Parliament would back down ftom the deal and make additional demands.  But it decided not to go there....

And there are always loose ends: 5 Brexit fights still brewing (Politico)

[steve ridgway]

I noticed the raspberries and baby plum tomatoes we bought yesterday both came from Morocco, so trade is presumably adjusting. And some shops are still selling the French version of Somerset Brie.

[Que]

Good to hear French brie is still available!  And I'm sure Moroccan tomatoes taste as good as Dutch ones. 

I haven't seen much lately on the economic impact of Brexit.
Here is an article on Bloomberg: 100 Days of Brexit: Was It as Bad as 'Project Fear' Warned?

The first impression seems to be that it is certainly not the worst case scenario, but still significant: the long term negative impact on UK GDP is prognosed to be between 3% and 5%.

[Irons]

Quote from Normandy fishing boss "Were ready for war. We can bring Jersey to its knees if necessary". The British Government replied "At least when the Germans invaded they kept the lights on".
Another quote, this time from Lord Hannan a former Tory MEP and at present at the UK Board of Trade "Our truest friends, like our richest prospects, lie across the oceans. It is clearly time to raise our eyes." 

[Que]

The antagonistic perspective behind Brexit, complete with WW II analogies used by the British media and Johnson himself,  is unfortunately a selffulfilling prophesy: the disruption of previous agreements and relations creates by its nature new conflicts...

The French thread of disrupting power supply is foolish. But the these fishermen are fighting for their livelihoods, as did British fishermen before them against Iceland in the Cod Wars.

The waters around Jersey are important for fishermen from Normandy. The deal between the UK and the UK was the preservation of existing rights. The French claim that many were denied the permit necessary to continue fishing around Jersey, and that those that got a permit discovered that it came with restrictions that didn't exist before.

Jersey fishing: What's the row between UK and France about?

Prospects across the oceans.... Just let me point out that EU membership formed no impedement in any way to international  trade, on the contrary. And the EU is still, by far, the UK's biggest trading partner.

But there is nothing wrong with aspirations. 

[Irons]

The antagonistic perspective behind Brexit, complete with WW II analogies used by the British media and Johnson himself,  is unfortunately a selffulfilling prophesy: the disruption of previous agreements and relations creates by its nature new conflicts...

The French thread of disrupting power supply is foolish. But the these fishermen are fighting for their livelihoods, as did British fishermen before them against Iceland in the Cod Wars.

The waters around Jersey are important for fishermen from Normandy. The deal between the UK and the UK was the preservation of existing rights. The French claim that many were denied the permit necessary to continue fishing around Jersey, and that those that got a permit discovered that it came with restrictions that didn't exist before.

Jersey fishing: What's the row between UK and France about?

Prospects across the oceans.... Just let me point out that EU membership formed no impedement in any way to international  trade, on the contrary. And the EU is still, by far, the UK's biggest trading partner.

But there is nothing wrong with aspirations. 

Both my wife and myself voted remain. If a vote tomorrow we would vote leave.
The UK is justly proud of the contribution made in the fight against Nazism in Europe. I see nothing wrong in the odd alluding to the fact.
Jersey are asking for proof that French trawlers have historically fished in waters under their jurisdiction so they are allowed to carry on doing so. It is perfectly OK that the EU demand masses of red tape in the form of reams of paperwork from the UK as a price for leaving the EU but when the boot is on the other foot they don't like it.
Of course to be on friendly terms with the EU is to the advantage of the UK but threatening behaviour of Macron especially (vaccine, fisheries etc), and it is understood he is doing this for political reasons at home, is driving a wedge.   

[Florestan]

The UK is justly proud of the contribution made in the fight against Nazism in Europe. I see nothing wrong in the odd alluding to the fact.

Why, of course. There was a time when the UK alone was fighting Nazism while the Soviets were drinking champagne with Hitler's minions --- so spare me, mr. Putin, willya?

[Que]

Both my wife and myself voted remain. If a vote tomorrow we would vote leave.
The UK is justly proud of the contribution made in the fight against Nazism in Europe. I see nothing wrong in the odd alluding to the fact.

I wouldn't consider for a second to deny the British their pride in their heroic contribution towards saving democracy in Europe,

But if anything, this episode of European history should be a reason to support European unity, not to abandon it.
Comparing membership of the EU with Nazi occupation, as Johnson did, and comparing leaving the EU with the escape from Dunkirk, as has been done in British media, is just twisted and perverse... It is not only wrong, it is dangerous.

Jersey are asking for proof that French trawlers have historically fished in waters under their jurisdiction so they are allowed to carry on doing so. It is perfectly OK that the EU demand masses of red tape in the form of reams of paperwork from the UK as a price for leaving the EU but when the boot is on the other foot they don't like it.

I explained the claims made by French fishermen. Just to put the imagery of "France is waging war on the UK" in a more appropriate context. Whether these claims are justified or not, is, if differences cannot be overcome,  up to the UK-EU Joint Committee or ultimately to the joint arbitration panel:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/future-relationship-dispute-resolution

Of course to be on friendly terms with the EU is to the advantage of the UK but threatening behaviour of Macron especially (vaccine, fisheries etc), and it is understood he is doing this for political reasons at home, is driving a wedge

Brexit didn't go down well with the French, who feel abandoned by the British and feel dearly about the European Cause. It was Churchill himself that offered the French a political union at the onset of WW II:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/britain-and-the-first-attempt-to-build-a-european-union/

So there is French resentment.. Unhelpful and unwise, but it's there...and it didn't suddenly fall out of a clear blue sky.

[Irons]

I wouldn't consider for a second to deny the British their pride in their heroic contribution towards saving democracy in Europe,

But if anything, this episode of European history should be a reason to support European unity, not to abandon it.
Comparing membership of the EU with Nazi occupation, as Johnson did, and comparing leaving the EU with the escape from Dunkirk, as has been done in British media, is just twisted and perverse... It is not only wrong, it is dangerous.

I explained the claims made by French fishermen. Just to put the imagery of "France is waging war on the UK" in a more appropriate context. Whether these claims are justified or not, is, if differences cannot be overcome,  up to the UK-EU Joint Committee or ultimately to the joint arbitration panel:

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/future-relationship-dispute-resolution

Brexit didn't go down well with the French, who feel abandoned by the British and feel dearly about the European Cause. It was Churchill himself that offered the French a political union at the onset of WW II:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/britain-and-the-first-attempt-to-build-a-european-union/

So there is French resentment.. Unhelpful and unwise, but it's there...and it didn't suddenly fall out of a clear blue sky.

Good points, well argued. But as always there are two sides. The British resentment of the French didn't suddenly fall out of a clear blue sky either. I do not know where your quotes come from but the consensus isn't "French are waging war on the UK" more they are being bloody difficult - border controls, vaccine imports and now fisheries. The resentment is clear to see. As for Johnson, he is always at pains to stress "Our European friends" and I can give you many instances of him saying that.   

[Florestan]

I don't remember where and when I read the following, but I find it appropriate to the topic.

During the Napoleonic Wars, a French frigate engaged an English one. In the heat of the battle, the French captain tells the English one: You Englishmen fight for money but we Frenchmen fight for honour! --- To which the English captain retorts: Well, everyone fights for what they lack!