Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 199042 times)

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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1820 on: November 10, 2021, 03:31:32 PM »

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1821 on: November 13, 2021, 01:25:05 AM »
An interesting read for those who have the apatite and patience to get into the nitty gritty of the present crisis over the NI protocol:

Welcome to Brexit 2.0

"the basis of the government’s approach is to re-run the entire Brexit process in the belief that a ‘better’ outcome than Brexit 1.0 can be secured by Johnson’s true believers and the use of ‘hardball’ tactics. So they would really like to go right back to the beginning of the Article 50 process, and in particular they want to revisit the entirety of the Irish border issue right down to the fundamentals of whether hard Brexit entails any border and all the ideas of supposed technological and administrative solutions that could be applied."

Offline Madiel

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1822 on: November 13, 2021, 01:57:11 AM »
An interesting read for those who have the apatite and patience to get into the nitty gritty of the present crisis over the NI protocol:

Welcome to Brexit 2.0

"the basis of the government’s approach is to re-run the entire Brexit process in the belief that a ‘better’ outcome than Brexit 1.0 can be secured by Johnson’s true believers and the use of ‘hardball’ tactics. So they would really like to go right back to the beginning of the Article 50 process, and in particular they want to revisit the entirety of the Irish border issue right down to the fundamentals of whether hard Brexit entails any border and all the ideas of supposed technological and administrative solutions that could be applied."

You didn't quote the really fun bit after that: "It is shockingly dishonest, if one could be shocked any more by the dishonesty, given that Johnson agreed and signed the [North Ireland Protocol]. It is also shockingly stupid, if one could be shocked any more by the stupidity in the continued boneheaded denial of what hard Brexit means for borders. It’s like watching an inordinately obtuse moron endlessly re-calculating 1+1 in the unshakeable belief that eventually the answer will be 3."

And I also like this later line:

"By re-running Brexit, Johnson is going to be under sustained pressure to explain why he signed a deal he now rejects, and why he lied about that deal being an excellent one."
« Last Edit: November 13, 2021, 01:59:10 AM by Madiel »
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Offline Que

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1824 on: November 27, 2021, 01:17:34 AM »
Interesting perspective:

Europe has learned nothing from Brexit. Brussels is blind to the economic threat the UK could become.

I do not doubt that the UK will recover from this crisis, though I'm not so sure if the relationship with the US will be such a major source of economic strength. Also, I wouldn't describe an economic stronger UK as a "threat" to the EU. The economic ties between the UK and the EU are still so close that the perspective of a zero sum game competition is a total misrepresentation of reality. IMO....
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 01:23:45 AM by Que »

Offline Irons

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1825 on: November 29, 2021, 08:33:00 AM »
Interesting perspective:

Europe has learned nothing from Brexit. Brussels is blind to the economic threat the UK could become.

I do not doubt that the UK will recover from this crisis, though I'm not so sure if the relationship with the US will be such a major source of economic strength. Also, I wouldn't describe an economic stronger UK as a "threat" to the EU. The economic ties between the UK and the EU are still so close that the perspective of a zero sum game competition is a total misrepresentation of reality. IMO....

I don't quite know what crises the UK is supposed to recover from. Anyway, when the UK has a new Prime Minister and the French a new President the (our) world will be a better place. I do not think a long wait for either.
You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1826 on: December 19, 2021, 02:40:49 AM »
Brexit hardliner quits:

Lord Frost resigns as Brexit minister

I think Frost felt undermined by the reluctance of rest of the UK govt to follow up on his threats in the negotiations with the EU over the Northern Ireland Protocol. His resignation increases the chances that the issues over the Protocol will be resolved.
Good news for NI and its business community.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 02:43:04 AM by Que »

Offline J.A.W.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1827 on: December 19, 2021, 03:16:24 PM »
Brexit hardliner quits:

Lord Frost resigns as Brexit minister

I think Frost felt undermined by the reluctance of rest of the UK govt to follow up on his threats in the negotiations with the EU over the Northern Ireland Protocol. His resignation increases the chances that the issues over the Protocol will be resolved.
Good news for NI and its business community.

Liz Truss replaces Frost:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59721801

I don't think that will help resolve the problems with the NI Protocol.
Hans

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1828 on: December 20, 2021, 12:45:51 AM »
Liz Truss replaces Frost:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59721801

I don't think that will help resolve the problems with the NI Protocol.


That would be unfortunate...
Because the current deadlock on the NI Protocol is blocking any improvement in relations between the UK and the EU.

But the political stakes are high. Brexit hardliners want to backpedal on the protocol and move the "economic border" back on the border between the two Irelands. And so do the hardline NI unionists: the NI economy is doing well, but bilateral trade is shifting from the UK to the Irish Republic. Which from an economic perspective was to expected.

Offline Irons

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1829 on: December 20, 2021, 12:48:48 AM »
Liz Truss replaces Frost:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59721801

I don't think that will help resolve the problems with the NI Protocol.


Next stop for Liz the lawn at 10 Downing street.

You must have a very good opinion of yourself to write a symphony - John Ireland.

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1830 on: December 20, 2021, 08:49:49 AM »
Next stop for Liz the lawn at 10 Downing street.


As someone said, she's an 'empty vessel'.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline The new erato

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1831 on: December 20, 2021, 09:13:08 AM »
As in available to fill with anything?

I thought that was Boris?

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1832 on: December 20, 2021, 09:20:13 AM »
As in available to fill with anything?

I thought that was Boris?
Yes, him too.

'The immovable moral toad' as one journalist, accurately, put it.

I consider him to be the worst prime-minister in British History, and there are quite a few to choose from.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 09:22:36 AM by vandermolen »
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Offline The new erato

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1833 on: December 20, 2021, 09:26:51 AM »
At least the most opportunistic, undisciplined and unprincipled, whatever one may think about Brexit. So yes.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1834 on: December 20, 2021, 09:36:41 AM »
opportunistic, undisciplined and unprincipled

Don't know about UK but that looks like a fairly accurate description of any number of Romanian politicians, be they presidents (including the current one), prime-ministers (including the current one), ministers (including the current ones) or MPs (including the current ones).  ;D
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Offline The new erato

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1835 on: December 20, 2021, 10:05:18 AM »
Don't know about UK but that looks like a fairly accurate description of any number of Romanian politicians, be they presidents (including the current one), prime-ministers (including the current one), ministers (including the current ones) or MPs (including the current ones).  ;D
Yes, when I visted Bucuresti the tour guide called the city jail for the Romanian Parlament.

Offline Florestan

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1836 on: December 20, 2021, 10:07:36 AM »
Yes, when I visted Bucuresti the tour guide called the city jail for the Romanian Parlament.

Wishful thinking!  :D
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1837 on: December 20, 2021, 12:38:31 PM »
Absent-minded or stressful day for second-biggest TV station here in DK, where, in a headline on the news website, he is named 'Jonhonson' ...

(~ 'New leak giving Jonhonson problems' ).

I guess they could make his first name look pretty funny too.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 12:40:49 PM by MusicTurner »

Offline Iota

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1838 on: December 20, 2021, 02:03:34 PM »
There's a feeling around that by giving
Liz Truss replaces Frost:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-59721801

I don't think that will help resolve the problems with the NI Protocol.


I don't imagine Boris Johnson cares very much. There's a feeling around that by giving Liz Truss the Brexit role, he's handing her a poisoned chalice to annul a political rival. It being Boris, I find that very easy to believe. Putting his own political needs ahead of those of the country seems to come naturally to him.

Like vandermolen, I've never known anyone less suited to the role he's in. He was able to campaign because it's about self-promotion, but when it comes to the real stuff he's like a two-dimensional object trying to fill a three-dimensional space, utterly hopeless.

Offline Que

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #1839 on: December 20, 2021, 02:14:14 PM »
It's an impossible position for Boris...

He has let Brexit hardliners stoke conflict with the EU to deflect from the fall out from a "failed" Brexit - which is an odd term since Brexit has delivered exactly what was to be expected.

Now he is stuck in a deadlock with the EU: moving forward would make the hole he has dug for his govt even deeper, moving backward is admitting failure and defeat.