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Brexit

Started by vandermolen, May 01, 2017, 10:14:35 PM

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Richard Pinnell

Quote from: Que on June 11, 2017, 09:15:50 PMAnyway,  I don't think the EU 27 are going to make the same mistake twice, which means the UK is out for now

I'm no expert, but I don't see it that way. Certainly the European Union is stronger with the UK included, just as the UK also needs Europe to prosper. It's clear that the UK needs Europe to prosper more than the other way around, but there are mutual benefits, and believe me, however virtuous DeGaulle may have been, the various leaders out there right now are far more swayed by economic benefits than he once was!
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Marc

Quote from: Jeffrey Smith on June 12, 2017, 07:45:13 AM
One of the guiding principles of Washington and the other American Founders was to keep out of European power politics as much as possible (not easy, and not always obtainable, since the European powers saw no reason to keep America out of their power politics).  And of course, Washington, as general of the Revolution, made sure that we here in the US were not, as dependents of Britain, sucked unwillingly into  European quarrels.   We were sucked into European quarrels, willingly and sometimes not, but at least it was on our own account, not that of Britain.

Thanks.

Jo498

The problem is that almost everyone in continental Europe was already pissed with the perennial cherry-picking and special status the UK always demanded within the EU, so we can hardly be blamed that some have the notion of "good riddance" and don't really feel like extending another special status offering etc. after the UK gave the EU the finger with Brexit.
And the UK is not that special anymore. If the North Sea Oil dries up they are really going to be in a fix because in the long term rent extraction and globalized fraud by city banksters cannot keep an economy going.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Mr. Minnow

Quote from: nodogen on June 11, 2017, 02:22:49 PM
This is a bit masochistic of me, given I'd really want a Labour government, but as the clock is ticking on Brexit, this might be a good time NOT to be in government, given that Brexit will turn to an omnishit.

Best case scenario I can see is the Tories limp on for a bit in chaotic fashion propped up by the DUP while a Tory party civil war erupts over Brexit. Their remainers like Soubry and Davidson are already saying that the election result shows the public has rejected a hard Brexit, while the Brexiteers are demanding that we carry on full steam ahead towards the iceberg. They're in real trouble unless there's some kind of compromise position that would satisfy both sides, but it's hard to see what that could be. If the Labour "moderates" acknowledge they were wrong about Corbyn being a guarantee of electoral annihilation and start to support him, in a few months time we could have a united Labour party up against a Tory party tearing itself apart. If this also means the Tories are completely incapable of conducting the Brexit negotiations effectively they'll look like a lame duck government led by a lame duck PM. We can but hope!   

Spineur

Quote from: Richard Pinnell on June 12, 2017, 09:52:05 AM
I'm no expert, but I don't see it that way. Certainly the European Union is stronger with the UK included, just as the UK also needs Europe to prosper. It's clear that the UK needs Europe to prosper more than the other way around, but there are mutual benefits, and believe me, however virtuous DeGaulle may have been, the various leaders out there right now are far more swayed by economic benefits than he once was!
I am no expert either.  But England has a functionning army and navy.  With the US being somewhat unreliable for the next 3 years, cooperation with the UK has to be preserved on that front.  The economic issues are and will be a mess because the web of legal transcription of EU commercial directives are going to be so hard to rework.
In any event I think its going to require a great deal of compromising from all side to clean up the mess.

Todd

Quote from: Christo on June 11, 2017, 09:28:41 PM
As if 'Europeans' exist.


That's sort of the problem, you see.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

nodogen

I've just read that at the 1922 committee meeting May was "contrite." I can only conclude that was a typo. Still, she can stay in No.10 till they decide to release the trap door. 😈

Richard Pinnell

Quote from: Spineur on June 12, 2017, 10:08:02 AMEngland has a functionning army and navy

Sorry to be pedantic, but it's pertinent here to point out that the army and navy belong to the UK, not just England. It's ignorant English nationalism that has got us into this mess in the first place so better not to fuel it any further!! 😉
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Richard Pinnell

Anyway I'm writing this moments before a (cough) chamber orchestra performance of Mahler's 9th. It's a good job the music of the past is immune from any Brexit. 😉
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

Spineur

France Macron says the door is always open for the UK to stay in the EU

http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKKBN1942KO

W. Schauble just said the same thing this afternoon.

Let see who picks those statements up among the UK politicians

Que

#70
Quote from: Spineur on June 13, 2017, 11:49:33 AM
France Macron says the door is always open for the UK to stay in the EU

http://uk.reuters.com/article/UKNews1/idUKKBN1942KO

W. Schauble just said the same thing this afternoon.

Let see who picks those statements up among the UK politicians

A generous act of your new benevolent ruler!  :)

But I think it's a mistake.... now is not the time...

Unless the UK miraculously turns into one of the driving forces behind a reformed, stronger more integrated and unified European Union.

Which it won't. The Brits have been party poopers right from the moment they became a member and only interested in free trade...

(Newsflash: the EU is, and was founded to be, more than just a free trade zone...)

The UK blackmailed the EU for rebates and opt outs, pressed a US geopolitical agenda and blocked any meaningful integration as much as it could.

I think a time out is in order. And it is time for the EU to move forward...

As far as I'm concerned the UK can get any reasonable deal safe for a return to membership. Why not remain part of the internal market?

Legally I think all of the EU 27 have to agree to reverse the British exit since the UK has already exercised its unilateral right to leave.

The exit is already a legal fact, though there is a delay for it to take effect. Reentry means renegotiation.

Q

The new erato

Let them stew and face a brave new world in alliance with Trump which doesn't even dare to visit the UK. Perhaps some sense will prevail in the long run.

nodogen

Quote from: The new erato on June 14, 2017, 02:27:04 AM
Let them stew and face a brave new world in alliance with Trump which doesn't even dare to visit the UK. Perhaps some sense will prevail in the long run.

I hope so too. May must get no chance to offload blame to others; she has been the strong and stable robot. While the countdown to her demise continues unfortunately I have to live in this stew! 😡

Richard Pinnell

Quote from: nodogen on June 14, 2017, 09:07:27 AM
I hope so too. May must get no chance to offload blame to others; she has been the strong and stable robot. While the countdown to her demise continues unfortunately I have to live in this stew! 😡

Yes. I feel the same. About time to finally get that revolution rolling? 😉
Every word is like an unnecessary stain on silence and nothingness

nodogen

Quote from: Richard Pinnell on June 14, 2017, 12:28:47 PM
Yes. I feel the same. About time to finally get that revolution rolling? 😉

In all seriousness, I do wonder what the near future holds for the UK. So many issues coming to a head, and a very divided country. I think May and the tories are on the ropes yet the country is supposed to accept a Tory govt propped up by 10 nutjobs with a paramilitary background? Uh, hello???

Mr. Minnow

Quote from: nodogen on June 14, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
I think May and the tories are on the ropes yet the country is supposed to accept a Tory govt propped up by 10 nutjobs with a paramilitary background? Uh, hello???

I'm still waiting for the Daily Mail and the Sun to go into fits of splenetic fury at the very idea of a paramilitary-backed party having such influence over the government of the UK. You know, the same kind of frothing outrage we saw so much of when they were trying to smear Corbyn as the terrorists' friend.

Scion7

Exit the EU, and militarily rebuild the British Empire.
The Netherlands are just SITTING there, helpless - let's get the Ark Royal in ship-shape and move in as a first step.
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

nodogen

Quote from: Scion7 on June 17, 2017, 12:32:32 AM
Exit the EU, and militarily rebuild the British Empire.
The Netherlands are just SITTING there, helpless - let's get the Ark Royal in ship-shape and move in as a first step.

I think that may be Plan B.

Que


nodogen

Quote from: Que on June 27, 2017, 02:56:45 PM


Steve Bell is thankfully merciless.

I see today the cracks are already starting to show amongst the tories.