Brexit

[NikF4]

Thanks Nik. I guess that I wouldn't really emigrate as I said that I'd do so, in my university days, if Mrs Thatcher came to power and I never did.

You're welcome. Yeah, I know your mention of emigrating is just an exclamation of frustration. But it's not the first I've heard in recent weeks. Most people in my apartment building are comfortable in a financial sense, but they've concerns about the current state of affairs and although I try not to get dragged into conversations with them about it they hold similar sentiments regarding the country and what happens next. Back during the Thatcher era the miner's strike was on the lips of the working class, but this is the first time I've seen almost everyone worried, all across the board.

And yes, if Cameron was any kind of a real man (perhaps I shouldn't use the that term nowadays... Instead, if he was any kind of real 'adult'?) he wouldn't have bolted. I try not to judge people, but his behaviour wasn't self serving, it was simple cowardice.

Anyway, I'm out of this thread. 

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

And yes, if Cameron was any kind of a real man (perhaps I shouldn't use the that term nowadays... Instead, if he was any kind of real 'adult'?) he wouldn't have bolted. I try not to judge people, but his behaviour wasn't self serving, it was simple cowardice.

Anyway, I'm out of this thread. 

I blame Cameron for the referendum, but not for quitting. He was against leaving the union, how can he in good faith oversee the process? The real question is, if he was against leaving the union, how could he put such a momentous decision on a referendum? That's the insanity. If there was robust and legitimate support for leaving the union support would have come up through parliament and there would have been a parliament that could have seen it through.

May is another thing. My understand is she was "Remain" before the referendum, what led to the change of heart? The chance to be PM? Same as the Boris Johnson case.

[vandermolen]

I blame Cameron for the referendum, but not for quitting. He was against leaving the union, how can he in good faith oversee the process? The real question is, if he was against leaving the union, how could he put such a momentous decision on a referendum? That's the insanity. If there was robust and legitimate support for leaving the union support would have come up through parliament and there would have been a parliament that could have seen it through.

May is another thing. My understand is she was "Remain" before the referendum, what led to the change of heart? The chance to be PM? Same as the Boris Johnson case.

Very much agree with your comments here.

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Very much agree with your comments here.

I would also suggest that Camron and his government share a large measure of blame for the success of Brexit, despite their opposition to it.  The prolonged "austerity" program that the conservatives put forward in response to the recession of 2008 created the conditions that made Brexit seem like a good idea to so many people. It seems to me it compounded the misery, particularly of those not well off, and fed cynicism.

[The new erato]

I would also suggest that Camron and his government share a large measure of blame for the success of Brexit, despite their opposition to it.  The prolonged "austerity" program that the conservatives put forward in response to the recession of 2008 created the conditions that made Brexit seem like a good idea to so many people. It seems to me it compounded the misery, particularly of those not well off, and fed cynicism.

Indeed.

[vandermolen]

I would also suggest that Camron and his government share a large measure of blame for the success of Brexit, despite their opposition to it.  The prolonged "austerity" program that the conservatives put forward in response to the recession of 2008 created the conditions that made Brexit seem like a good idea to so many people. It seems to me it compounded the misery, particularly of those not well off, and fed cynicism.

I agree with you here as well.

[Mandryka]

I like these flow diagrams that the BBC produces

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

One can almost discern the shadow of Teresa May's Brexit strategy. "The idiots voted leave, as PM I will try to put through a Brexit Plan that is as soft as can be agreed to, as close to remain as can be managed."

[Que]

It seems a long delay and European elections in the UK are coming! 

Donald Tusk will tell EU to back Brexit 'flextension' for UK

The psychological blow that such a development would cause to the leave camp cannot be underestimated IMO....

Things will probably move to an eventual soft Brexit agreement and a confirmatory referendum, which might lead to no Brexit at all...

Looking back, May had definitely no soft Brexit in mind - her aim was to keep the UK outside of the customs union as well as the internal market. From her days as Home Secretary she had been obsessed with immigration and leaving the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice of the EU. Which she confused with the European Court of Human Rights,  but that's a different story.. 

May is said to avoid a no deal situation/ hard Brexit at all cost, to prevent a break up of the UK. I guess at least she got one thing right...

Q

[vandermolen]

Commemorative Brexit coin:

[Mr. Minnow]

I like these flow diagrams that the BBC produces

This one sums it up pretty well:

[Mr. Minnow]

Commemorative Brexit coin:

Very apt. As is this:

[Iota]

Psychologically I spend a lot of time watching this from behind the sofa at the moment. Trying to predict anything seems like trying to get a hold in quicksand. My initial warm feelings towards Jeremy Corbyn have also taken a temperature dip for now, he seems to have behaved somewhat shadily and ineffectively, but perhaps no-one can come out looking much good in the implacable gloom of Brexit. My personal Brexit weathervane vacillates between hope and losing hope, spending more time in the latter, but awaiting signs of something more definite.

[vandermolen]

Very apt. As is this:

Excellent. Some more commemorative designs:

[Que]

[Mr. Minnow]

[Que]

The perspective from Australia:

"It is a bit like watching a loved grandparent in physical and mental decline.
You care for them deeply. You appreciate all they have done for you.
But each day they become more inwardly focused. Their world contracts.
They seem increasingly incoherent."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-10/brexit-and-australias-relationship-with-britain/10879914

Q

[vandermolen]

The perspective from Australia:

"It is a bit like watching a loved grandparent in physical and mental decline.
You care for them deeply. You appreciate all they have done for you.
But each day they become more inwardly focused. Their world contracts.
They seem increasingly incoherent."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-10/brexit-and-australias-relationship-with-britain/10879914

Q

Seems about right to me.

Interesting NY Times article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/02/opinion/brexit-news.html

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

What's the latest, the UK still in the EU?

[Que]

What's the latest, the UK still in the EU?

Oh yes, next deadline will be Friday...

Now Parliament has adopted an Act to force the government's hand to request a delay in lack of a deal, a no-deal situation seems increasingly unlikely.

May has already put in a request for June 30th, but that is likely to be rejected by the EU-27 tomorrow.
More likely is that they will offer the UK a longer delay of at least a year.

The UK govt has already put things in motion for European elections on May 23rd! 
That's going to be intesteresting...

Honestly, I don't think Brexit is ever going to happen. Unless May and Corbyn strike a deal to drag the UK out, and force that decision through without a confirmatory referendum.

So, further delays ahead, and a continuation of the total meltdown of British politics in the meantime.

Q