Brexit

[Madiel]

So the issue is not insufficient supply but a peak in demand, because of scare mongering in the newspapers?

Well, I guess the upside of that would be that since panick buying can't last forever the issue with the shortages will soon be resolved.

It's toilet paper all over again.

[Que]

So the issue is not insufficient supply but a peak in demand, because of scare mongering in the newspapers?

According to the BBC:

"So what's behind the crisis?

The key issue is there aren't enough drivers to supply petrol.
There's an estimated shortage of more than 100,000 HGV drivers and petrol is only the latest industry to be hit.
The lack of drivers has caused problems for a range of industries - from supermarkets to fast food chains.
Fuel tanker drivers need additional safety qualifications on top of their HGV licence to be able to transport chemicals such as petrol."

I guess we'll soon find out...

[The new erato]

Why do people panic if they buy into "Brexit's gonna be troublefree and great"?

[steve ridgway]

I've just walked past a filling station on my way to the Post Office. They'd turned off the illuminated price sign and every pump had an "out of order" label on it.

[steve ridgway]

It seems we're also no longer "Great Britain".

GB number plate sticker no longer valid abroad

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Just saw some encouraging news re GB and petrol:  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58729653

Pd

[The new erato]

It seems we're also no longer "Great Britain".

GB number plate sticker no longer valid abroad

And maybe not so united either ?

[Que]

 
= The Patel/Johnson discussion has been moved to the Boris Johnson thread =

[Mirror Image]

I'm not one to comment on other country's political problems as the US has a million problems of its own, but I have to say Brexit is looking like a complete failure from all sides of the political coin. I never understood their reasoning for opting out of the European Union as pretty much every country in the continent is a member. It seems that this gamble hasn't paid off and I'm afraid that the only people who will be hurt in the end will be its citizens. Boris Johnson needs to go and they need to get someone who will get them back on track financially.

[Que]

To avoid the "failure" qualification, the narrative on the dividends of Brexit has shifted over time from "unprecedented opportunities", to "much will remain the same", to "these are temporary hickups" to "this is the price worth paying for our sovereignty".

Frankly I (still) don't see any upsides to Brexit, neither political nor economical. And nobody has ever managed to explain to me what these upsides actually are. The regained sovereignty is in name only and came with significant loss of international influence and economic damage. Brexit will negatively affect the UK's ability to sail through the global economic crisis we are heading for.

[71 dB]

I see two reasons for Brexit:

A: Possibility for more relaxed regulations compared to EU which can, at least in theory, benefit at least some capitalists (rich people)
B: Political populism based on ignorance, xenophobia and patriotism, the (false) feel that UK doesn't need other countries, at least not much.

I used to think A is dominant and B is secondary, but now I think I was wrong and reason B is actually the main reason.

Many politicians will exploit the ignorance of the voters. Political literacy is important in democracy. Otherwise ignorance wins. 

[Herman]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/britain-fuel-crisis-johnson.html

About the prospect of a bleak winter, with many shortages, most of all labour.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Has anyone seen or heard about deliveries of petrol by the military?  Or are things getting better on their own?  Or still the same?

PD

[Iota]

I see two reasons for Brexit:

A: Possibility for more relaxed regulations compared to EU which can, at least in theory, benefit at least some capitalists (rich people)
B: Political populism based on ignorance, xenophobia and patriotism, the (false) feel that UK doesn't need other countries, at least not much.

I used to think A is dominant and B is secondary, but now I think I was wrong and reason B is actually the main reason.

Many politicians will exploit the ignorance of the voters. Political literacy is important in democracy. Otherwise ignorance wins. 

I broadly agree with this, and indeed Que's #1729.

My own take on this is that human beings obviously generally tend to do things that make them feel better, or things they imagine will. Which often means doing something of practical benefit to them, improving their living standards etc. But sometimes it's an emotional decision such as righting a perceived wrong, which may even mean a deterioration in practical circumstances, but which they still feel they have to do, however illogical, to be able to feel okay again. I'm sure we all do this sometimes.

And Brexit was one such thing, an itch that had to be scratched, a regaining of a mythological (imo) autonomy which some people seemed to crave. But whether it's mythological or not is irrelevant, it's whether people believe the myth or not that matters, belief is a far more powerful driver of human behaviour than logic. And as any demagogue well knows, it doesn't come much more emotive than love of country, battling the perceived enemy etc. And ultimately more voters believed that they would be happier out than in, irrespective of practical consequences. And they still do. For them Brexit has been a success. Myth or not, they got what wanted, the belief that we once again can be the master of our own ship.

For me a Remainer I absolutely didn't get what I wanted, but I now broadly accept the situation, there is no point in not. All the lies from media and politicians during the campaign were only stoking a deeper feeling people already had I think, and it's wrong to say that the only people who 'really' wanted out, are the powerful and mendacious figureheads, who were leading a helpless flock of unknowing sheep to their fate. Many people felt like that quite independently of campaign propaganda.

The whole process though tiring/depressing/exasperating for many, is done now. Even just typing this feels like yet again pointlessly going over an endlessly ploughed field. The constructive thing to do now is make the best of a bad job, and hope something good comes of it. History shows that stupid actions sometimes lead to good outcomes. Let's hope we get lucky.

[Mirror Image]

I broadly agree with this, and indeed Que's #1729.

My own take on this is that human beings obviously generally tend to do things that make them feel better, or things they imagine will. Which often means doing something of practical benefit to them, improving their living standards etc. But sometimes it's an emotional decision such as righting a perceived wrong, which may even mean a deterioration in practical circumstances, but which they still feel they have to do, however illogical, to be able to feel okay again. I'm sure we all do this sometimes.

And Brexit was one such thing, an itch that had to be scratched, a regaining of a mythological (imo) autonomy which some people seemed to crave. But whether it's mythological or not is irrelevant, it's whether people believe the myth or not that matters, belief is a far more powerful driver of human behaviour than logic. And as any demagogue well knows, it doesn't come much more emotive than love of country, battling the perceived enemy etc. And ultimately more voters believed that they would be happier out than in, irrespective of practical consequences. And they still do. For them Brexit has been a success. Myth or not, they got what wanted, the belief that we once again can be the master of our own ship.

For me a Remainer I absolutely didn't get what I wanted, but I now broadly accept the situation, there is no point in not. All the lies from media and politicians during the campaign were only stoking a deeper feeling people already had I think, and it's wrong to say that the only people who 'really' wanted out, are the powerful and mendacious figureheads, who were leading a helpless flock of unknowing sheep to their fate. Many people felt like that quite independently of campaign propaganda.

The whole process though tiring/depressing/exasperating for many, is done now. Even just typing this feels like yet again pointlessly going over an endlessly ploughed field. The constructive thing to do now is make the best of a bad job, and hope something good comes of it. History shows that stupid actions sometimes lead to good outcomes. Let's hope we get lucky.

Yes, I'm hoping there is light on the other side for all people in the UK. Hopefully, things will iron itself out and your country will get back on the right track. It'll take some time I'm sure, but if history is any indicator --- you Brits are a resilient people!

[Que]

Yes, I'm hoping there is light on the other side for all people in the UK. Hopefully, things will iron itself out and your country will get back on the right track. It'll take some time I'm sure, but if history is any indicator --- you Brits are a resilient people!

Let's hope so, indeed.

The emotional/dogmatic nature of Brexit that Iota described, will however now form a big obstacle for any change of course. People tend to rationalise their (emotional) decisions after the fact and look for alternative explanations when things turn out badly, or just ignore negative consequences altogether.

History, in this case, might prove not to be so helpful.... Since it feeds a sense of exceptionalism and encourages an attitude of entrenchment.

[71 dB]

I have always been into UK music. My favorite composer is Elgar and even before getting into classical music I was heavily into British electronic (dance) music, British acts such as S'Express, The Beatmasters, The Prodigy, Jonny L, Autechre and dozens of others not to mention the various "British" subgenres. My music diet has always been very British. 

This is why it has been hard for me to see all of this Brexit-madness happening. Now I can't even order online from UK without the fear of customs hassle and extra cost and instead I have to order from Germany which limits my options. Why wasn't it Poland leaving, Polexit? Why did this happen with the UK? It is really annoying, because the Brexit vote was close and people were lied about Brexit. The World is such a stupid and frustrating place!

[71 dB]

The shortages in the UK are about to get worse now that the European lorry drivers need passports to enter the UK. Up to 80 % of lorry drivers don't have passports because they haven't needed them. ID-cards have been enough.

What a mess! 

[steve ridgway]

Has anyone seen or heard about deliveries of petrol by the military?  Or are things getting better on their own?  Or still the same?

Worse in the London area but better elsewhere. The military will be starting work Monday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/58772169

Desperate drivers follow the wrong tanker

[Pohjolas Daughter]

The shortages in the UK are about to get worse now that the European lorry drivers need passports to enter the UK. Up to 80 % of lorry drivers don't have passports because they haven't needed them. ID-cards have been enough.

What a mess! 

Some positive (though temporary) updates that should help:

"Fuel supply: Military to deliver petrol to UK garages from Monday"

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58766648

PD